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Old 04-13-2020, 08:42 AM   #1
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Flexibility vs. one-lane thinking

Since the questions asked of JMD in his own thread have gone unanswered for literally years now, figured I'd start a new one on a similar topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
...It's YOU morons who lack tactical flexibility, not the guy who knows how to make 30 lbs of gear last forever. People who aint even got NVD goggles, luminous sights and a silenced, concealable autorifle, claiming they are "flexible".. what a joke.
Fwiw, (juvenile insults aside) I agree that the following are good things to have:

- night vision
- luminous night sights
- suppressor(s)

Don't necessarily think that they're all must-haves, and imo that's inarguable since most people have survived just fine without them since the beginning of time. But they're handy, helpful, and sometimes even just fun, to have available.

Personally, I'm glad to see people learn & grow, such as JMD now realizing that night vision is a good thing rather than a waste of resources.

On night vision, the best I have are not really 'top end'; they're Gen2+ that I've had for over a decade. There are certainly better ones available now if a person wanted to spend that much money, which I personally don't. There are also some surprisingly inexpensive options nowadays that use camera technology instead of the old intensifier-tube technology. A simple $119 Carson digital night-vision is very handy, and probably half as good as the D-300 unit I paid (iirc) something like $800 for a decade ago. There have also been great advances in night-vision capable scopes. A $499 Sightmark Wraith is hugely better than the mil-grade night vision I used 38 years ago; and it even comes with a pretty good IR flashlight attached. Since it's using camera technology, a built-in SD card slot actually records as you're using it if you want. Great advances in that time frame are to be expected, but to get that capability for right at the equivalent of half a week's pay by the average American worker, is impressive to me. Back then, they were several months' pay in cost, not several days' pay.

All in all, there are a lot of surprisingly affordable alternatives nowadays, that simply didn't exist a while back. Prices have come down, capabilities have gone up, and it gives us options that we didn't have in the past.

Fwiw, a short two minute rabbit-hunt video with a Wraith on a ruger 22 rifle. And for reference, the Wraith is a 4-32X scope; so when the little indicator at the bottom left says "2X", it means 2X the 4-power optical magnification, or 8X total magnification. So some of these rabbits are a good ways away then they're getting harvested. Some pretty impressive technology, for comparatively stunning low prices nowadays:
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Old 04-13-2020, 09:21 AM   #2
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Tactical flexibility is somewhat wasted without strategic planning.

What are your goals?
What are the things that you need to do to achieve those goals?
What are the timeframes involved?

Answer those three things and you can start making your tactical plans.

Strategy is what, tactical is how.

Tactics in of themselves are empty ideas without a goal or framework (strategy) to apply them.

Most of my strategic thinking revolves around hunting and surviving in the wild on extended hunting trips. I also plan for prolonged periods of social unrest and interruptions in normal life. (This is why I have stockpiles of certain items like food stuffs, water, first aid equipment, etc).

I am banking on the fact that TEOALAWKI isn't happening in my lifetime. There's too much knowledge, too many people in power that would lose it all, it won't be allowed to happen - a least not like all the fantasy versions would like.

The equipment I have, I know I can trust my life to. While homemade stuff can be good, it isn't necessarily tested and proven. Just like the recommendations on rifle optics - buy better glass than you think you can afford, do the same with packs, sleeping gear, etc.

In the wild, if that stuff fails, you can die. Staying warm and dry can mean the difference between life and death.

I know I'm rambling a little, but tactics in a vacuum are worthless.
 
Old 04-13-2020, 09:53 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorobuta View Post
...I am banking on the fact that TEOALAWKI isn't happening in my lifetime. There's too much knowledge, too many people in power that would lose it all, it won't be allowed to happen - a least not like all the fantasy versions would like...
Agree. Max Max, The Postman, and similar long-term end-of-civilization storylines can make for interesting movies, but they've simply never happened in the history of the world. And a historical record of thousands of years of "never happened" must logically lead to the concept of "extremely unlikely to happen in my short time here". Short-term "really bad"; sure, possible. Long-term 'kind of bad'; also possible. But not decades-long, widespread, really bad; not happening. At least, not anything that I could survive regardless of what I did.

Edit - fwiw, the Wraith on the .300BK carbine. The barrel looks odd because of having such a long forend and just a thread protector on the muzzle. Usually has the Mystic-X in place when being used. Also, the scope front looks odd in the pic because I didn't close the front lens cap when snapping the pic; it's still open & pushed to this side of the gun:


It's heavier than I prefer in most cases, but that's the inevitable price for nighttime capability.
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Last edited by John in AR; 04-13-2020 at 09:58 AM.
 
 
Old 04-17-2020, 09:21 PM   #4
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I rarely buy anything that I can't see a use for in a non-shtf world
Only things I gritted my teeth over when pushing the buy button were hard armor plates and helmet.
But if some of the panic buyers I've seen a few times show up at the public range. It might be a good idea to have it on.
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Old 04-18-2020, 06:25 AM   #5
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When I show up at a range I am usually" Guinea Casual"( untucked shirt,work pants, sensible shoes). A lot of the time, the Tacticool Kidz aren't aware that I am there to shoot until I swap my non-operator shades for eye protection and earplugs,produce a pistol and start working.
Doing the Grey Man thing never hurts. Even easier, considering that my hair is greying.
I tend to favor the draw and shoot drills, malfunction and barricade drills, failure to stop/Mozambique stuff.
If I have a longarm or an AK pistol along for the ride, then I (obviously) have more overt clothing and gear (chest pouches/Utility vests etc), but I prefer to do that if the range is otherwise less crowded,or if the crowd is one that I know.
 
Old 04-18-2020, 06:29 AM   #6
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As far as the SHTF prep/environment goes, I generally consider a good way to prep for or get through it is to NOT be " visibly prepped and tooled up". Or ,to not draw the eye at all. Shiny Object Syndrome is a real thing- one to avoid unless you are TRYING to be visible (deterrence,or visibly mark yourself to friends/associates /avoid mistaken ID.. or as a head fake to draw the problematic sorts attention away from something or someone else
 
Old 04-18-2020, 06:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorobuta View Post
Tactical flexibility is somewhat wasted without strategic planning.

What are your goals?
What are the things that you need to do to achieve those goals?
What are the timeframes involved?

Answer those three things and you can start making your tactical plans.

Strategy is what, tactical is how.

Tactics in of themselves are empty ideas without a goal or framework (strategy) to apply them.

Most of my strategic thinking revolves around hunting and surviving in the wild on extended hunting trips. I also plan for prolonged periods of social unrest and interruptions in normal life. (This is why I have stockpiles of certain items like food stuffs, water, first aid equipment, etc).

I am banking on the fact that TEOALAWKI isn't happening in my lifetime. There's too much knowledge, too many people in power that would lose it all, it won't be allowed to happen - a least not like all the fantasy versions would like.

The equipment I have, I know I can trust my life to. While homemade stuff can be good, it isn't necessarily tested and proven. Just like the recommendations on rifle optics - buy better glass than you think you can afford, do the same with packs, sleeping gear, etc.

In the wild, if that stuff fails, you can die. Staying warm and dry can mean the difference between life and death.

I know I'm rambling a little, but tactics in a vacuum are worthless.
Excellent response, it virtually covers all my beliefs also. For decades I have believed in a 6 Option approach and used that as my guide when planning and purchasing. Planning requires research and purchasing is progressive. Your time line should be based on your financial reality.

Unlike Melvin, I am a competitor at shooting matches. I don't consider this tactical training, be it 3 gun matches, action pistol, IPSC, IDPA, WW2 re-enacting or Cowboy Action. Running the same drills gets boring real fast, trying to get your spouse and other family members to actually work on their marksmanship requires a bit of inventive thinking when it is not their primary interest. This is nothing more than practice and flexibility.

As for purchasing a non shtf firearm, what exactly is that? Any firearm, while not being your first choice can be a defensive firearm if used within its limitations. Example; a 75 year old single shot shotgun can be used to protect yourself in the bush from bear and moose if you choose the appropriate ammunition, but I wouldn't want to storm Omaha beach with one. We can start to get very paranoid listening to "experts" like Melvin, or we can choose to make this a segment of our daily life. We have no control of the future, unfortunately for Melvin he lives in a fantasy that he can control his life after the fact.
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Last edited by Garand; 04-18-2020 at 08:36 AM.
 
Old 04-18-2020, 07:29 AM   #8
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Melvin an expert in same sentence! Don't think so.
 
Old 04-18-2020, 08:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassMan View Post
Melvin an expert in same sentence! Don't think so.
We must keep in mind that Melvin is a "legend in his own mind".
 
Old 04-21-2020, 07:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd View Post
I rarely buy anything that I can't see a use for in a non-shtf world
Only things I gritted my teeth over when pushing the buy button were hard armor plates and helmet.
But if some of the panic buyers I've seen a few times show up at the public range. It might be a good idea to have it on.
Same here for the most part. My theoretical, probably-never-gonna-happen 'shtf' guns are the same ones as my normal, everyday guns. I don't have a ballistic helmet, but do have both hard and soft armor. It's somewhat like smoke detectors or property insurance to me - I hope to never need them, but wouldn't be completely comfortable without them.

The only time I wear my hard armor is occasionally when shooting, just to stay somewhat used to the feel of it (which is not a good feel), and also if I'm in the woods or even pasture during hunting seasons. There are a lot of people who never touch a gun all year, and then when some big game season rolls around they grab a 7mm magnum or crossbow, drive in from Little Rock or Memphis to an area they're not real familiar with, and start shooting at things. Those seasons run pretty much from september to almost march, and at that time of year (at least at the peak times), when I'm in the woods I'll wear my plates under an orange vest.

I've had people tell me I should wear the plate carrier more, to get more practice not only shooting with it on, but to get more repetitions of reloads from the plate carrier's magazine pouches. Personally I don't worry much about that. I did it in one class, but don't anymore. My main AR carbine has a redi-mag on it, and I practice reloads from that. The odds of needing (or surviving to need) more than two AR magazines in any given 'real' situation is astronomically low imo; and just pretty much not a real thing in my world.

But as you say, just about zero "shtf-only" guns or gear in my world. I do have 'emergency' gear (fire extinguishers, etc), but not much of anything that's 'combat only' gear. Because objectively speaking, my combat-appropriate decades are largely behind me anyway.
 
Old 04-21-2020, 07:16 PM   #11
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John when you mentioned deer season and talked about _city folk" from Little Rock out hunting and probably trespassing to boot. Beer Hunter is an old term I used to use.
And unfortunately we got more than our share up here too.
Got me to think about looking for a blaze orange plate carrier.

The helmet I had mixed feelings on getting one until I saw the size XL and the price. Had been considering a Protech sport helmets but under 2 bills for an unissued helmet in my size! Couldn't pass it up. Plus it's got customizable cushion pads to lessen impact shock like sport helmets. Much better than the old K pot WWII style helmet head band and harness IMHO
I can't imagine suiting up all the way and going anywhere to kick ass and take names.
But I can imagine dodging and ducking while defending the home...and maybe whacking my head on something. Or catching a fragment of something in my balloon sized noggin.
 
Old 04-22-2020, 08:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd View Post
...Beer Hunter...
I like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd View Post
...The helmet I had mixed feelings on getting one...

...I can't imagine suiting up all the way and going anywhere to kick ass and take names.
But I can imagine dodging and ducking while defending the home...and maybe whacking my head on something. Or catching a fragment of something in my balloon sized noggin.
Again, same here. I do have a normal full-size hard hat for use when construction site requirements mandate it, and an inexpensive bump cap for when on the tractor in the woods. Much less hot & uncomfortable than the full hard hat over the course of the day, but still protects from tree-limb smacks very well. And $4 at zoro tools.


https://www.zoro.com/erb-safety-bump...67/i/G8603314/

Fwiw, Zoro tools is one of the online stores I use most. I needed some filter wrenches the other day; they were $9.79 at amazon and $3.48 for the exact same culligan-brand wrench at zoro.

Not to turn this into a commercial for zoro tools, but I've bought everything there from tools to gas cans, to water filters, weld-on hooks for the front end loader, hearing protection, electromagnetic gate locks, and even a lot of plumbing parts over the years and have always had good experiences and good prices at the same time. I placed an order online Monday night (the filter wrenches, a retracting extension cord and Type-1 gas can), and even with free shipping it's supposed to be here tomorrow.
 
Old 04-22-2020, 09:21 AM   #13
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Thanks for the heads up on Zoro Tools some places online do have varied markup on the same items
 
Old 04-22-2020, 10:35 AM   #14
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Been very happy with them, for probably 3-4 years now. The OSHA-approved type 1 gas can I have on order is $62 from the manufacturer's website (Justrite), $50 at both Northern Tool and Safety Supply, and $41 at Global Industrial. At Zoro it was $35.

Not everything is cheaper there; you do have to watch. I lost my spyderco delica while on the tractor recently, and zoro turned out to be higher than most places.
 
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