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Old 05-27-2016, 09:59 AM   #1
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Combat Shooting vs the 2 Way Range

https://tattooedskier.com/2016/05/18...two-way-range/


Competion shooting vs the two way range

img_0786-4

Date: May 18, 2016

Author: tattooedskier



A disturbing trend has recently developed in the tactical world. Sequenced matches against a shot timer have started to set the bar for how gun fighting is taught. As the 3-gun sport starts to evolve, the art of gun fighting is being lost.



Iím am all for speed and proficiency with any firearm. Reloads and all Immediate Actions should be done fast and smooth with the end result to get accurate fire down range fast. Competing against other sport shooters does induce stress and is valuable training to build the basic mindset required. This is training and it should be emphasized as just that Ė training. Gun fighting isnít just about speed itís about awareness. He who is most aware of the environment around him the fastest, wins.

The layout of the 3-gun matches and how they are sequenced help competition sport shooters become lighting fast. They sacrifice awareness for speed. We have all seen videos of 3 gun shooters running and gunning with incredible efficiency and speed. What allows them to be so fast and accurate is the fact that itís a sequenced range. With pre set targets and a set number of rounds to use on each target, transition and move to the next. Little tactical awareness is required, you can train for and memorize the range. No different than a ski racer training for the Olympics. Your awareness is not being tested. Your proficiency and speed are. The one who has the best mental preparation and reaction time that day wins.

A gunfight is a completely different world. The only factors that you can control are that of ammo you currently have and yourself. Everything else in this environment is now as random as rolling a pair of dice in crap shoot.

This is not a competition where everyone goes home at the end of the day. If you are slower or have an ďoffĒ day itís not really a huge deal in the sport shooting. In this world of gun fighting second place takes home a casket not a silver medal.

Here you would be a fool to assume your enemy is not equally if not better trained than you. He has watched the same YouTube videos and run the same ranges you have. His weapon proficiency and accuracy is likely just as good as yours. Like you he understands the consequence of losing this fight and is motivated to be the winner just as much as you are. Bullets travel 2 ways here, only winners walk away from here. Letís make no mistake this is a gunfight someone will die and there is a possibility that will be you.

Not only in this complex world, are you having to find the threat and engage but also identify if it is a shoot or no shoot situation. Add the distraction of communicating with your team and finding cover. Your awareness becomes so crucial here because regardless of your plan before its guaranteed to changed as soon as bullets start flying. In order to gain the initiative and win this gunfight you need to have the awareness coupled with the instinct and ethics of a professional warrior to ebb and flow with the fight.

Unlike 3 gun competitors your barricades and cover are not standardized. The layout and the room your cover will provided as well as the state of the ground are completely random. Sometimes cover is man made, some times itís based on terrain. You have to adapt and make things happen here. Couple this with potential driving rain, humid desert heat, or snow and ice. There is no well maintained clear of trip hazards range environment. The dynamics of this environment are complex and completely random. Your enemy is not a clock, itís a human trained just like you in the art of warfare and gun fighting.

The equipment you carry isnít designed for competition speed either. It is designed for practicality. The IR lasers, lights, and optics are not with you to be tacti-cool. They are there for a tactical and practical application of violence. Holsters and magazine pouches are designed for retention. They need to retain your ammo and your sidearm from the shock and intensity of exiting an aircraft and in the chaos and unpredictability of a gunfight. Letís face it you are potentially crawling in mud, rolling around in sand, or trudging through knee deep snow. You are not moving through a range where safety is the number one concern not survivability. Where speed is more important than retention.

The encumbrance of your equipment is incredible. Ballistic armor, helmet, ammunition, water, radios, batteries, night vision, more batteries, IFAK, grenades the list goes on and on. The weight is distributed as best you can however itís not even. The physical demand here is huge. Your fitness level directly effects your awareness here. If you are not fit here you die. War fighters train with all this weight in their training environments. Train the way you fight is your mantra. This makes fitness a huge key in how aware you are. Itís the determining factor on whether you live or die in the combat environment. Fitness is not an option here it is life.

3 gun sport Shooting and gun fighting are completely different worlds about the only the thing they have in common is accuracy and proficiency with a gun. As a armed professional itís your responsibility to train the way you fight. Increase your awareness by realistic training with your team. Discussing real world situations and recreating them in train environments. Your range training needs to simulate your fighting environment. Train in the rain in the snow and in the suck. Remember when you are not practicing someone somewhere is and when you meet them they will win. For us that stand in harms way this type of training, mindset and awareness means living or dying. Itís not a medal or points on a 3 gun circuit.



Very interesting read.
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Old 05-27-2016, 10:21 AM   #2
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no, the enemy is NOT as aware and skilled as I am. In fact, he's so stupid as to not have a silencer, not have an autorifle, not have NVDs' or even luminous sights, and he's out and about in daylight.
 
Old 05-27-2016, 10:28 AM   #3
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I'm kind of an old fart, but I miss the hogan's alley setups with the popup targets that varied from combatant to innocent.

The thing that makes them good for realism creates a problem with them for competition, though. The randomness, decision-making, unpredictability, etc, inherently means every run must be somewhat different; and every run being different, makes for unacceptable inconsistencies from a competition standpoint.
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Old 05-27-2016, 10:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
no, the enemy is NOT as aware and skilled as I am. In fact, he's so stupid as to not have a silencer, not have an autorifle, not have NVDs' or even luminous sights, and he's out and about in daylight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
...I think that the intelligent looters will be on off road motorcycles, mostly traveling off road, or at least, on back roads. The really dangerous ones will have night vision.
...
 
Old 05-27-2016, 02:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
no, the enemy is NOT as aware and skilled as I am. In fact, he's so stupid as to not have a silencer, not have an autorifle, not have NVDs' or even luminous sights, and he's out and about in daylight.
This is patently the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Out of everything, this is taking a special place in my memory.

You have no idea who your "enemy" may be in any kind of altercation unless you have enemies for known reasons and have invested time in that regard (and there are implications to that as well).

Some of the most dangerous people are those with nothing and no training or pattern. Response to them is basically limited to being reactionary or deliberately aggressive unless you have no liability whatsoever. This happens in CCW situations all the time, including self defense situations of my own. If you have liability, you cannot be merely aggressive.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
I'm kind of an old fart, but I miss the hogan's alley setups with the popup targets that varied from combatant to innocent.

The thing that makes them good for realism creates a problem with them for competition, though. The randomness, decision-making, unpredictability, etc, inherently means every run must be somewhat different; and every run being different, makes for unacceptable inconsistencies from a competition standpoint.
Some events use pop up targets or resets like this to reduce the risk of collaborating teams talking to each other and put the emphasis back on individual development as opposed to an "atta-boy."
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Old 05-27-2016, 03:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
no, the enemy is NOT as aware and skilled as I am. In fact, he's so stupid as to not have a silencer, not have an autorifle, not have NVDs' or even luminous sights, and he's out and about in daylight.
This thinking is so strange as to be not considered sane. How do you know the skill set or equipment of unknown enemies? Is this on the same plane as somehow knowing how myself and others on this Forum shoot? Explain, please. I've certainly never been on a range with you, nor to my knowledge have any of the other Forum members. Do you just imagine these things, therefore they're real?
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Old 05-27-2016, 08:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
no, the enemy is NOT as aware and skilled as I am. In fact, he's so stupid as to not have a silencer, not have an autorifle, not have NVDs' or even luminous sights, and he's out and about in daylight.
Your stupidity and ignorance of your foes capabilities has reached a new plateau. If there ever is a catastrophic event, displaying this attitude you would be lucky if you even survived 12 hours.
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Old 12-17-2019, 10:52 AM   #9
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Back to the top, just a reminder to Melvin that life is not an IPSC match.
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:52 PM   #10
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Old Melvin can try posting this drivel at Warrior Talk and hear the Sonic Boom of him getting simultaneously laughed and banned out of there.
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Old 12-21-2019, 12:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
no, the enemy is NOT as aware and skilled as I am. In fact, he's so stupid as to not have a silencer, not have an autorifle, not have NVDs' or even luminous sights, and he's out and about in daylight.
I know at least 25 people with all of those items, two who were door kickers in the sandbox.

I have all of those items and more. Night does not make you invisible nor invincible.

Relying on drugs to sleep makes you an easy target with slow / no reaction time.

Your enemies, real or imagined will more than likely eat your lunch.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:28 AM   #12
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Only when Melvin is out on one of his Ambian induced nocturnal e-missions.
 
Old 01-17-2020, 12:51 PM   #13
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Aware an skilled as he is! What a laugh. It is not 1976 anymore, you are OLD-SLOW an over the hill many years ago!
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Old 01-18-2020, 07:40 AM   #14
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Melvin, marksmanship is a perishable skill, when is the last time you competed in a match? 40+ years ago?
 
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