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Old 07-25-2004, 05:42 PM   #1
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SHTF Sleeping Arrangements

If you're on foot and on the move during a crisis situation, how are you going to sleep? My mind can only think of three ways: on the ground exposed, on the ground in a tent, and off the ground in a hammock. When I've been roughing it alone, always managed to sleep in a hammock off the ground away from snakes and snoopy little animals. The hammock doesn't weigh much and is easy to set up and fairly comfortable. I've also camped in a tent which wasn't too bad as it provided some protection. Exposed and on the ground seems like the worst way to sleep as far as protection from snakes, etc.

Your thoughts and comments would be really appreciated since I don't remember this subject being talked about.

Thanks!

RIKA



 
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Old 07-25-2004, 05:56 PM   #2
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RIKA:
When I saw your title, "SHTF SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS." I thought you were going to be commenting on who, could/should/would sleep with who.

Another interesting question you have laid out for us to comment on.

Personally, I have a very light weight cot that goes with me. But, the cot would be the first thing to be jettisoned, if weight became a problem.

A hammock could be a light weight asset for sleeping, and food security. Using the hammock, and a rope thrown over a limb, to store food out of the reach of animals.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 06:06 PM   #3
 
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Ive always made "Poncho Hooches", but it takes at least 3 to build it properly, with 4 people you can damn near build a poncho condo, and 1 man watches whil 3 sleep, 2hr shifts, with a smuggler fire and You can stay warm, dry, and comfy with just a poncho liner. Smugglers fire li built in a hole appx a E-Tool deep, and little more then blade width, at a appx 45deg angle connect a "chimmney hole" about 6" above the bottom. If You use dry wood there will be no smoke, the light is diffused, You can cook over it, and when You leave put the dirt back in the hole.
 
 
Old 07-25-2004, 06:18 PM   #4
 
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Depends a lot on the weather. In warm weather it's just flop down on a close cell foam Ridgerest style mat with maybe a poncho liner.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 06:18 PM   #5
 
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We can't be too careful during SHTF.

Y'all scout around and I'll guard the women.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 06:21 PM   #6
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Sounds like you have an over-estimate of the snake danger. Been reading Mark Twain?

If it weren't for the insects (mosquitos are THICK here), I'd just go on the ground 9+ months out the year and a sleeping bag for the other three. Tent needed in rainy conditions.

...or we could just shoot people, crawl inside of them to sleep and stay warm, and steal their food an ammo each night! LMFAO!
 
Old 07-25-2004, 06:28 PM   #7
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Tell you what, if you are in warmer parts of the country and put your sleeping mat on top of a fire ant mound, you are in for a VERY bad time.

And no, they aren't always very visible, even in daylight. Sometimes you don't have a mound at all, and the nest is entirely underground.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 06:50 PM   #8
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I need dope to sleep in one, even with "spreader-sticks', but a hammock is the best choice, preferably high enough up in a tree to not have to worry about dogpacks.



 
Old 07-25-2004, 06:56 PM   #9
 
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Yeah, I look for bugs and the signs of it. Dealt with fire ants before. It all just depends. I do live in Arizona. Scorpions and snakes out here worry me more than fire ants.

In the desert, it's best just to sleep in the back of the truck or a floored tent. Being on foot in the desert sucks. The whole point is to grab some quick naps while heading out of the desert.

Hammocks aren't bad if you have a place to tie one up.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 08:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
I need dope to sleep in one, even with "spreader-sticks', but a hammock is the best choice, preferably high enough up in a tree to not have to worry about dogpacks.
Yeah MELVIN, it's those dog packs, that will do it to you everytime. And there are SOOO many of them too.
 
Old 07-26-2004, 04:10 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillwater
Yeah MELVIN, it's those dog packs, that will do it to you everytime. And there are SOOO many of them too.
There are, at least when it's a 99% probability that your SHTF is going to be running from the cops, AGAIN. That is, if you don't roll over the phone AGAIN.
 
Old 07-26-2004, 07:11 PM   #12
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In the colder climates your rubber air mattress provides good insulation for your body from the frozen earth. Establishing a good dead air space that will not allow your body to freeze can keep you alive longer. Point, if you constantly awaken at night shivering with cold, by the time you wake up in the morning your defences will not be as sharp as they possibly could be. If you have to run a "cold camp" your in even more trouble.
 
Old 07-26-2004, 07:19 PM   #13
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Cold Camping Points ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garand
In the colder climates your rubber air mattress provides good insulation for your body from the frozen earth. Establishing a good dead air space that will not allow your body to freeze can keep you alive longer. Point, if you constantly awaken at night shivering with cold, by the time you wake up in the morning your defences will not be as sharp as they possibly could be. If you have to run a "cold camp" your in even more trouble.
Good points GARAND, all good points. Thank you for reminding me.
 
Old 07-27-2004, 07:54 AM   #14
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In my "Get Home Bag", I don't carry a sleeping bag. I do carry a small, one-man (good quality) three-season "tube tent". Doesn't protect as well from overall atmospheric cold as a sleeping bag would, but it does protect from rain, wind, bugs, snakes, critters, etc. Since ultra-low temps are a rare concern here, the tent's shelter properties, along with extra clothing and mylar blankets in the bag (and likely 'expedient' insulation) are more important to me than the increased warmth properties a bag offers.

This is in central Arkansas; farther north, things would obviously be different.

I've considered a hammock, as they weight basically nothing and can serve multiple uses (hang a pack or food up in a tree to protect from animals, cargo netting, possibly net fish, etc), but with our insect situation, I'd never want to leave the shelter of the tent at night, so no hammock. Further north, where there's not the carnivorous insect problems we have here, it might be a decent thing in the warm months.
 
Old 07-27-2004, 09:52 AM   #15
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for 4 season backpacking, I prefer the 2 poncho "tent". In order to keep wt and bulk to a minimum, every pc of gear has to be multiple-use. The Hammock keeps u up off of the wet,rocky, ground, the bugs, snakes,etc. The lack of loss of heat, thru conduction to the earth, helps in cold weather. The ponchos serve as expedient rafts, reflectors, shelters, etc Just add some snaps and velcro down one side of each of the ponchos. The neck hole can be "tied off" by the pull-strings..

One has to have cord along, anyway, so you can nearly always arrange to suspend the ponchos over one cord,suspend the hammock by another. Shelter that you can WEAR is more practical than shelter that is just shelter. Adding a pair of large pcs of "no see um" netting, a pc at each end of the poncho tent, will handle the bugs. Wrapping a pc around your head and neck,another around the "gap" between pants and shirt, will let you travel thru buggy areas fairly unmolested, too.

I have had experience with lugging -around a wet, 40 lb sleeping bag, and it SUCKS. I greatly prefer to take a pair of the "heavy duty' Mylar blankets,cut them into a mummy configuration, and sew velcro around the edges. This lets you have the option of "blankets",reflectors, half a bag,complete coverage, etc. Keep it on the hammock (covered withthe groundsheet) and with sewing awl, and "strapping tape', you can make it serve you for months. That's all that's necessary for shtf, cause only afool STAYS where it's cold.You MIGHT get caught in such a place for ONE winter,but then you MOVE. Also, there will be plenty of sleeping bags to take from the dead,so why put up with a single-purpose, $300, EASILY torn, or soaked, bulky, 4 lb regular sleeping bag,with its jamming,snagging zippers,etc?

The Mylar DOES have problems.It's a bit noisy if you flop- around a lot,but sleeping-meds deal with that problem. So does being inside of a poncho tent.Nothing's perfect, ya know. It also "retains body-moisture", so you have to wear Thermax long johns and/or Goretex cammies inside of the Mylar bag, and you also have to periodically "vent' the bag. This is not hard to do,of course.all that'snecessary is to pull apart the velcro,top and bottom of the bag, and flop around in it a bit,then reseal the velcro. Unless it's below freezing, if you are wearing the above mentioned clothing, in the 2 poncho tent, you can sleep ok with just 1 or both of the Mylar pcs used as blankets. Nobody said shtf is going to be FUN, ya know.

The Mylar is also pretty good at hiding your body heat from Big Brother's thermal and infared seeking devices. If it's colder than about +20 degrees Farenheit,you will probably need some sort of fire to help you stay warm enough to sleep, or additional insulation of some type. It's usually quite feasible to use dry grasses, a natural shelter (at least, a partial one), as additional help in staying warm, and/or to heat rocks in a small, hidden fire,burying them under 1-2" of dirt or sand,under your hammock. Doing so will have them radiating heat for several hours, helping you get to sleep.



 
Old 07-27-2004, 10:58 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
The Mylar DOES have problems.It's a bit noisy if you flop- around a lot,but sleeping-meds deal with that problem.
Andy, you offer some pretty good ideas. As a 'thank you' for your suggestion on my gold plating problem I won't make any confrontive comments on the parts of your post that I absolutely don't agree with.

But ... your sleeping meds are an extremely bad idea during any shtf or crisis situation. The way you sleep anybody could come up and kill you. I would rather go without artificial sleeping help knowing that I'll doze off when I get tired enough. Getting sleepy? Just crawl into a hidden thicket and catch some zzz's. Hope you don't snore.

RIKA



 
Old 07-27-2004, 04:39 PM   #17
 
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A couple of thoughts sleeping gear in various climates.

First, I do not recommend sleeping pills, you may need to wake up in a hurry. Under stress and tired, you should have no problem getting to sleep. If it's too cold for you to sleep, there is a good reason for it. Taking sleeping pills in that environment is asking for hypothermia or worse. It's about like a drunk passing out in a snow bank.

Same basic situation as drinking during extreme cold. Every spring in Russian cities, as the snow melts, they keep an eye out for the bodies of drunks that passed out in the snow during the winter.

If you're too cold, you simply need to get warmer, there's no getting around that. Then fatigue will kick in and you'll get some sleep.

Now, I've done a lot of backpacking, and a lot of my backpacking I've done without a tent, but never without a sleeping bag. There really is no substitute for a sleeping bag for any type of real cold.

For backpacking during 'normal times', I carry in my pack a Ridgerest style foam mat, a sleeping bag (North Face polar guard filled currently) with a goretex bivy, a poncho liner, poncho, mosquito net, 2 emergency style space blankets, and a tarp style space blanket. I also have a camo net I can bring, but it's not that necessary during 'normal times'.

A sleeping bag is no more tear prone than a poncho/mylar arrangement, much less so actually, especially with a good bivy sack.

If it tears, which is rare unless a person is wantonly careless, just fix it. The zipper and fasteners nowadays are very good. You can also modify your bag with velcro tabs for rapid opening under certain circumstances and/or to keep it closed in case the zipper fails.

You also have to work really, really hard to get a modern sleeping bag soaked, especially if your bag has a bivy, which you should get. You should also carry it in a tough, waterproof stuff sack. Many modern packs are made to carry the sleeping bag inside the pack.

The modern materials will also keep you warm even if it is damp/wet and they can be dried out a lot faster than the old materials.

More often than not, I'll just use the sleeping bag with a bivy, a Ridgerest style mat, and something to toss over it all and my pack, like a tarp or a poncho.

For a camp shelter, a square piece of canvas tarp is a tad heavier than a poncho but it works extremely well. It's very tough, won't be tossed about by the wind like something made of plastic or nylon, and you can camouflage it with spray paint if you want to. A piece of camo netting can be also be used and enhanced to supplement things.

Lay out your sleeping gear, lay your pack next to it along with maybe some local fire fuel you want to keep dry. Then just toss your tarp and/or net over everything.

It's fast to setup and pack up, and if you do this right, someone just about has to step on you to notice you.

Here's an interesting light sleeping bag. It's the Arktis Halo 3 sleeping bag designed for military ops. It's 2.5lbs and temp rated for 35F.



The Snugpak Jungle Bag is also pretty good
http://www.lightfighter.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=199


I also carry a couple of emergency style mylar space blankets and a heavy duty space blanket that's like a tarp with grommet holes and is olive drab on one side. They have their uses and the additional weight is negligible.

One of the biggest problem with mylar is that it doesn't breath. The condensation from your own body will rapidly defeat attempts at keeping warm. Mylar's ability to warm is also rapidly defeated by any wind whatsoever, even the heavy duty ones.

I froze my ass off one windy, rainy night that I tried to rely upon an emergency style space blanket. The thing eventually started tearing to shreds so I tore it to pieces and then stuffed the pieces into my clothes. THAT actually worked noticeably better than wrapping myself in it.

Now, space blankets work well supplementing shelters. For instance, if your sleeping bag is a tad light for the weather, a space blanket tarp tossed over it helps out, as does an emergency style one used inside of the bag laid on top of you like a blanket. Space blankets also work well supplementing a poncho liner. A space blanket, if used right, can seriously supplement a poncho and poncho liner combo.

Space blankets are also good for the inside of a shelter used as a blanket and as a shelter liner, and any place where there is no wind, like inside of a vehicle. Mylar works best when there is some air space between you and it, and your body can breath. It also works well reflecting the heat from almost any source, like a candle.

Hammocks work well in the tropics, but in a cold environment outside, especially one with wind, a hammock's usefulness as a sleeping tool evaporates. A close cell foam sleeping mat will get you a lot further.

The poncho tent works OK, especially when the goal it to just keep the rain off of you when it's not too cold or windy out. The biggest problem is that the ends of the poncho tent remain open, allowing wind in. Rain can also be blown in.

For sleeping, I've used the poncho a lot more often as a sleeping tarp or as part of a bedroll. When it's not too cold and windy out, what works good for a fast sleep is to roll up in a poncho liner on the foam mat.
 
Old 07-27-2004, 05:31 PM   #18
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Its sometimes real hard to find 2 trees on the prairies. Gunkid, now that you have started please post a detailed kit list that you have prepared to go at this minute?
 
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