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Old 06-15-2004, 02:35 PM   #1
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Map and Compass - Yes or No?

My kit contains a USGI Tritium compass and maps of my AO. Backup GI compass and maps are stashed in my car along with a map of the US. Also have USGS (US Geodetic Survey) maps of the retreat area that show great detail (forget what the size ratio is).

In my opinion, would rather have a map and compass over a GPS any day because you can never tell when the sattellites could become disabled or have mis-information fed into them.

They are a "must-have" for me.

RIKA



 
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Old 06-15-2004, 05:48 PM   #2
 
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I think the first thing to crash when shtf will be the computers so the gps will be about as usefull as a rock(well actually less because the gps will break easier.) But just make sure you can use the map and compass accurately, because land nave is easly forgotten.

Nick
 
Old 06-15-2004, 06:26 PM   #3
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best just go LEARN the area, first hand.

Maps won't show you where the game, livestock, enemies, fallout, or diseases are. I can see using them to HELP YOU STUDY a given area. I can see having TWO of the little "pin on" compasses, one to check the other with, to convince you that the compass IS correct, and your "sense of direction IS wrong. :-) Mountian areas, in particular, are likely to really confuse you, direction-wise, and getting "turned around" is considerably more dangerous in the mountains than it is on the flatlands.



 
 
Old 06-15-2004, 06:30 PM   #4
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Heck, I was in the Pine Barrens of New Jersey years ago and swore up and down my compass was broken. No way I was heading in the direction that thing said I was.

Yep, I was........
 
Old 06-15-2004, 08:21 PM   #5
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Re: Map and Compass - Yes or No?

Quote:
Originally posted by Raider
My kit contains a USGI Tritium compass and maps of my AO. Backup GI compass and maps are stashed in my car along with a map of the US. Also have USGS (US Geodetic Survey) maps of the retreat area that show great detail (forget what the size ratio is).

In my opinion, would rather have a map and compass over a GPS any day because you can never tell when the sattellites could become disabled or have mis-information fed into them.

They are a "must-have" for me.

RIKA
RIKA:
That, is a real good question!

I have two GPS systems, one for each of my vehicles. And I have TWO USGI, tritium lensatic compasses in each vehicle, along with United States Geodetic Survey maps of the eleven western states. I have a larger Garmin GPS unit that I can switch from vehicle to vehicle, that has voice prompts.

All three GPS devices, they're all Garmin units, have topographical maps, and city maps, of the eleven western states loaded into them too.

I have solar panels in each vehicle just to charge the batteries, along with extra many batteries.

If I were anyone reading this thread, I wouldn't be dumb enough to use the little pin on compasses. Thats not the brightest thing I have read in a long time.

Lately, I have brushed up on my map reading and and orienteering skills I learned, when I was in the military. I now practice these skills, just to stay on top of that game.

Bill
 
Old 06-15-2004, 08:25 PM   #6
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Re: best just go LEARN the area, first hand.

Quote:
Originally posted by 223 fan
Maps won't show you where the game, livestock, enemies, fallout, or diseases are. I can see using them to HELP YOU STUDY a given area. I can see having TWO of the little "pin on" compasses, one to check the other with, to convince you that the compass IS correct, and your "sense of direction IS wrong. :-) Mountian areas, in particular, are likely to really confuse you, direction-wise, and getting "turned around" is considerably more dangerous in the mountains than it is on the flatlands.
RIKA:
Apparently Melvin is still reading without comprehension.

Bill
 
Old 06-15-2004, 08:29 PM   #7
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RIKA:
In the eastern part of the state, I told you about, there is a company, Metzger Maps, that put out detailed area maps, that can be used to back up the USGS maps. In some ways they are much better.

This company even has lightly traveled dirt roads on their maps. They have been in business for about 85 years.

Bill
 
Old 06-15-2004, 08:53 PM   #8
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Yes. One good compass, and a cheap backup one.

Map folded, in two layers of ziploc bags. And yes, I'm pretty familiar with the area to start with.
 
Old 06-15-2004, 10:06 PM   #9
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I attended the Trimble GPS/sattelite navigation school some years back. GPS is excellent, but the signal is weak. You can sometimes lose the signal in urban or heavily forested terrain. As much as I like GPS, I always carry a compass, too.
 
Old 06-15-2004, 10:46 PM   #10
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I've carried a Silva Ranger compass on my webbing for 28 years, and I never had the problems that gunkid has. I also maintain a set of provincial grid maps and topo maps of my area. Unlike some, I actually know how to read a map and use a map in conjunction with the compass. Ignorance can kill you, it doesn't get any simpler.
 
Old 06-16-2004, 04:48 PM   #11
 
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YES!

Note on GPS: if there is a major SHTF scenario, such that citizens are taking up arms against the government, EXPECT the civilian GPS channels to be shut down (also keeps foreign invaders from using civilian GPS units), so only the units that descramble military channels will be of any use.

Moral of the story: have maps and at least one compass (I'm also fond of the Silva Ranger), and KNOW how to use them.
 
Old 06-16-2004, 04:53 PM   #12
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Re: best just go LEARN the area, first hand.

Quote:
Originally posted by 223 fan
Maps won't show you where the game, livestock, enemies, fallout, or diseases are. I can see using them to HELP YOU STUDY a given area. I can see having TWO of the little "pin on" compasses, one to check the other with, to convince you that the compass IS correct, and your "sense of direction IS wrong. :-) Mountian areas, in particular, are likely to really confuse you, direction-wise, and getting "turned around" is considerably more dangerous in the mountains than it is on the flatlands.
Actually, properly used maps can pretty much show you those things.

Why do hunters use maps to plan hunts, unless some basic map skills can help you determine where game is likely to be found.

Maps can show you likely places to find water, or where water is.

A little basic wind knowledge and some decent maps and you can make a good determination of where fallout, bio agents, or even eney troops may be present.

Since you can't see fallout or bio agents, going there to see first hand is likely to prove fatal.

You keep trying to take the things maps are very good for and discount them by claiming the opposite.

I always have a set of maps (even when I am travelling on business, even if by air) with me.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 03:20 PM   #13
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I like both Silva and the Swiss compasses. I also have County and State road maps in addition to the ones put out by the USGS and the US Forest Service.

Here there are many steep valleys and hollows where GPS will not work
 
Old 07-25-2004, 04:46 PM   #14
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Talking to a wall

That's what this thread is turning into. A twelve year old boy scout can use a map and compass. I don't know an adult that can't read a map. Like I stated before, the GPS is a great tool, would not be without one. BUT, a map and compass alway's come with me. What do you if your batteries run dry? What if you can't acquire because of trees or overcast skies? Sit down and weep? As usual, John has no clue what he's talking about. Any person who is REALLY interested in surviving, or just enjoy's hunting, fishing and the outdoor's know's how to use a map and a compass. Just know your area? What if pressure (need for food, enemy pressure etc.) makes you leave your area? WHAT do you when it get's dark? Remain still? HE can't use a compass and map, therefore their not useful. How did you get through basic training for God's sake, John?
 
Old 07-25-2004, 05:34 PM   #15
 
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Maybe he's just yanking your chain.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 05:52 PM   #16
 
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Rich, Are the Pine Barrens" You refer to somewhere near Ft. Dix? I spent sevearl months there in 1990 just before I went to the Desert Storm. Pine forest look a whole lot alike especially in flat lands, only terrain I saw that is less friendly is cane groves in eastern TX, and western LA.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 06:55 PM   #17
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sure, a COUPLE of really lw,pin-on compasses,make

it handy to keep moving in the general direction you want to,even if fog, snow, etc, is blocking the sun.Maps ASSUMED a given area, and that's probably bs. Maps with ENOUGH detail to be really helpful don't cover much area at all. You'd need dozens of them in order to let you see much of anything that you need to see. I can see CACHING some maps, at each of your 2 cache circles, perhaps, but you'd better KNOW the route to your retreat area, well enough to not NEED a map. Ditto the retreat area itself. Maps dont show you the springs, the "buggy" areas, prevailing wind, many other things that you NEED to know, like where such and such resources are, a given stand of plants,useful at such and such time of year.



 
Old 07-25-2004, 08:19 PM   #18
 
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A Delorme atlas book for your state shows stuff like windmills, etc. They give you a very good idea where water sources are. Extra details you can mark in for future reference.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 08:27 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Maps dont show you the springs, the "buggy" areas, prevailing wind, many other things that you NEED to know, like where such and such resources are, a given stand of plants,useful at such and such time of year.
More wiz-dum from Chief Spewing Bull.

Seems maps of my area show springs and anyone with any sense will know what areas to avoid or where to look for certain species of plants.

Topo maps come in different scales if you know what kind to order for your AO you don't need many.

If you don't want to be too specicific a Sate Highway Map and a Map per each National Forest or Park Area, depending on your state, is a minimal amount.

But I also prefer to have ones of my county, major cities and specific wilderness areas.
 
Old 07-25-2004, 08:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 223 fan
Maps won't show you where the game, livestock, enemies, fallout, or diseases are.
Actually, they can give you a real clear picture of all those things, if you know how to apply the information presented.

Terrain (as provided by maps) and prevailing winds will determine how fallout and airbourne diseases move.

Maps can show you where the heavily wooded areas will be, where sources of water are, and highlight the places that would be the most inaccessable. Places where game is most likely to be at.

Maps can show you where farms are, where water holes are and where fence lines are. Cattle will be in those areas.

Enemy? depends on the scenario. Invading armies? Maps can show you where armor can move, where natural staging areas for helos would be, and likely places for check points, ambushes and OP's.

Maps can also help you decide the safest way to transition an area on the way to someplace else. Show you which valleys or ridgelines would sheild you from the enemy, which routes provide the most options for E&E if you should make contact with the enemy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 223 fan
I can see using them to HELP YOU STUDY a given area. I can see having TWO of the little "pin on" compasses, one to check the other with, to convince you that the compass IS correct, and your "sense of direction IS wrong. :-) Mountian areas, in particular, are likely to really confuse you, direction-wise, and getting "turned around" is considerably more dangerous in the mountains than it is on the flatlands.
If you feel the need to check one compass against another, especially those cheap ball pin on types, you don't understand compasses. Getting turned around is dangerous no matter where you are.

Especially to someone who is planning to stick to heavy cover (no visible landmarks as reference) and travel only at night (again no visibile references)

You've posted this same basic post a number of times, and pretty much gotten the same response from every one.

 
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