if you've got $500 to waste

nikto · 06-01-2016, 01:11 PM

you can do worse than buying a used 20 ga M1100, a handtrap, box of claypigeons and a case of shotgun shells, assuming that there's a pretty girl to teach/entertain.

you'd be ahead with a couple of used airsoft pistols and protective gear, so you can shoot at each other (and you and your buds can too) for $100-$200 less money spent. can get an airsoft shooting timer for that kind of money, and REALLY learn something.

if you're too cheap to buy a timer, sometimes this app suffices.

BigBassMan · 06-01-2016, 01:40 PM

Airsoft is just a step above nerf guns. Grandkids outgrew both real fast.

BigEd63 · 06-01-2016, 01:53 PM

There's airsoft and there's airsoft. Go to a site like airsplat.com and you'll see the difference.

There's the cheap dollar store trash and then there ts the Japanese made stuff meant to have as close as the looks weight/balance and manual of arms as the real firearms they are designed to replicate.

All said and done for force on force I'd rather have something like Simunitions if possible but that's not always the case for non LEO people.

And of course back in my early teens some of us practiced the combat zen way of the "Golden BB". And we were dang lucky no one got an eye out.

Garand · 06-01-2016, 02:20 PM

Actually a 12 ga SxS using Winchester "AA" Low Recoil Low Velocity would do you far better than a 20 ga. I still believe Airsoft is for children and the video just re-enforces it.

DaRkWoLf · 06-01-2016, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigEd63

There's airsoft and there's airsoft. Go to a site like airsplat.com and you'll see the difference.

There's the cheap dollar store trash and then there ts the Japanese made stuff meant to have as close as the looks weight/balance and manual of arms as the real firearms they are designed to replicate.

All said and done for force on force I'd rather have something like Simunitions if possible but that's not always the case for non LEO people.

And of course back in my early teens some of us practiced the combat zen way of the "Golden BB". And we were dang lucky no one got an eye out.

I've found airsoft to be great for teaching safety as well.

There's a ton of value there, it's all how you approach it.

nikto · 06-01-2016, 06:49 PM

there's $1200, all steel 1911 Airsoft pistols. :-)

Garand · 06-02-2016, 07:00 AM

Frankly I have found that those using airsoft in the past have a very hard time treating the "firearm" as a potentially deadly weapon. Its an attitude thing, on a hot range I find everyone is better focused.

Melvin can play with his airsoft, it helps him maintain his personal SHTF fantasy where he becomes the evil warlord over all the rest of us. He says he's a good shooter but has yet to tell us where he placed in Rhodesia. That is if he did even attend and doesn't just have the same name as someone who did attend. IF he attended he would know where he placed, who came 1st, which team came first, where the team he was on placed, etc.

As in any sport at the beginning of it, the standards set are mediocre compared to what is achievable, 10, 20, 30 years later in the sport. But then again gun games are nothing else but games, and not reality.

BigEd63 · 06-02-2016, 08:58 AM

My comments in Bold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garand

Frankly I have found that those using airsoft in the past have a very hard time treating the "firearm" as a potentially deadly weapon. Its an attitude thing, on a hot range I find everyone is better focused. I agree with this and airsoft should never be used as a complete substitute or a crutch for real firearms training. Including safety procedures. A buddy of mine and myself have encountered some folks who think airsoft and even video games like HALO and Call of Duty equal real shooting. Ummmm....NO!

Melvin can play with his airsoft, it helps him maintain his personal SHTF fantasy where he becomes the evil warlord over all the rest of us. He says he's a good shooter but has yet to tell us where he placed in Rhodesia. That is if he did even attend and doesn't just have the same name as someone who did attend. IF he attended he would know where he placed, who came 1st, which team came first, where the team he was on placed, etc.

As in any sport at the beginning of it, the standards set are mediocre compared to what is achievable, 10, 20, 30 years later in the sport. But then again gun games are nothing else but games, and not reality.

Agree with that as well.

BigEd63 · 06-02-2016, 09:03 AM

My comments in Bold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garand

Frankly I have found that those using airsoft in the past have a very hard time treating the "firearm" as a potentially deadly weapon. Its an attitude thing, on a hot range I find everyone is better focused. I agree with this and airsoft should never be used as a complete substitute or a crutch for real firearms training. Including safety procedures. A buddy of mine and myself have encountered some folks who think airsoft and even video games like HALO and Call of Duty equal real shooting. Ummmm....NO!

Melvin can play with his airsoft, it helps him maintain his personal SHTF fantasy where he becomes the evil warlord over all the rest of us. He says he's a good shooter but has yet to tell us where he placed in Rhodesia. That is if he did even attend and doesn't just have the same name as someone who did attend. IF he attended he would know where he placed, who came 1st, which team came first, where the team he was on placed, etc.

As in any sport at the beginning of it, the standards set are mediocre compared to what is achievable, 10, 20, 30 years later in the sport. But then again gun games are nothing else but games, and not reality.

Agree with that as well.

nikto · 06-02-2016, 12:27 PM

ok, be stupid, waste time and money. I see a great plenty of unsafe and stupid behaviors with guns, have done quite a few myself. ALL you are is a plinker, with no clue how to hit swiftly, at low cost and with a lot less training time. People who are sloppy with their gunhandling will be so regardless of airsoft or whatever.

Garand · 06-02-2016, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikto

ok, be stupid, waste time and money. I see a great plenty of unsafe and stupid behaviors with guns, have done quite a few myself. ALL you are is a plinker, with no clue how to hit swiftly, at low cost and with a lot less training time. People who are sloppy with their gunhandling will be so regardless of airsoft or whatever.

If anything Melvin, you are the plinker! Money is simply that money, if you want a piece of kit that will provide long term, durable service, why not buy it? Buy quality rather than purchase cheap crap that will need replacing constantly. As for time, I'm retired I got lots of it!

You admit unsafe and stupid behaviors with firearms, nobody else does. I have been competing, regularly for over 30 years, I don't handle firearms like an idiot. I am a competitive shooter, Melvin you left that behind 39 years ago! Do you think they would let people in this day and age compete internationally if your handling skills are questionable? Marksmanship is a perishable skill, practicing with toys, is just that practicing with a toy. I got over that by the time I was 12 years old. The majority of people I have seen with airsoft, do not take firearms seriously. The treat it as a continuation of online gaming.

BigBassMan · 06-02-2016, 07:45 PM

Not a lot said anymore about paintball, has it died?
Something I used to have fun with when lived in town was spud guns.
Now I want to make a 4 man water baloon slingshot an torment boaters an a certain neighbor. (who is a member here!) Think I might go jam a potato in tailpipe of his jeep, he will never find it. Look out George. Or a water cannon mounted on my pontoon!

BigBassMan · 06-02-2016, 08:02 PM

$1200 for a AIRSOFT! No way in hell! I can buy several real guns for that much!

nikto · 06-03-2016, 05:42 AM

Japanese, man. they can't have real guns. Many spend 100k to come to HI or Guam and shoot for a month.

FordPrefect · 06-03-2016, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBassMan

$1200 for a AIRSOFT! No way in hell! I can buy several real guns for that much!

Click image for larger version

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Preparing for shtf..?

BigBassMan · 06-03-2016, 08:35 AM

Wait untill I get a pic of you guarding the Point in your gillie suit with a nerf gun.

BigBassMan · 06-03-2016, 09:02 AM

By the way George, it is time to make a run to MO or IN for fireworks. I need something to shoot down a drone, YOURS! Will have to get AL in on that one.
Also I found something on my porch hidden, Looks like his work.

nikto · 06-03-2016, 09:39 AM

i came 19th in Rhodesia, after not sleeping for 4 days. The .45's had a horrible handicap in that match. the top score with a P35 was 1900+ and the top .45 score was 1600+, turned in by raul walters, of Columbia Mo. I beat him 7-9x that year, on his home range, after traveling 190 miles one way to shoot against him. :-)_ He placed third in the world shoot that year. The Rhodesian team won, I forget who placed where. I think Jerry Usher came 5th, IIRC. My good friend Danny Hartmann came 16th.

nikto · 06-03-2016, 09:45 AM

the standards EYE set, are still top notch, bozo. .70 second average, for surrender start, draw and hit chest, at 5 yds, average of 5 tries. 5.5 second el prez, all hits in the c zone or better, full 10 yds, 3 yd interval, 180 degree pivot, surrender start. full charge ammo, no extended mag release, no comp, no optics, no bade pad on the mag, no mag well funnel. TRY it sometime. :-) OTHER people may have improved, but you're stil the same know nothing that you were 20 years ago.

Garand · 06-03-2016, 11:26 AM

IPSC was in its infancy in Rhodesia in 1977 (39 years ago), like any sport the initial standards set are generally exceeded regularly after a few years by the introduction of new kit and enhanced training methods. If you shot the current Single Stack Classics recently I'm sure we would all be impressed with your current abilities in a proven sanctioned match. Since you haven't competed in 39 years, there is no reason to take your word for it.

Apparently your memory is faulty Walters score 1802.289, Usher was 8th, not 5th and Hartmann came 22nd not 16th. The best way to end this thread is a quote from Dave Westerhout the winner in 1977;

"Asked how he felt about being world champion, Dave said said he could not really believe he had done it. "I'm not sure yet that it actually happened, or whether it is a dream. I was just lucky I guess." Second to Westerhout was Rhodesia's Peter Maunder, 116.403 points behind and third was America's Raul Walters (U.S) a further 41.741 points back. Maunder's efforts was particularly good as, after two mediocre trial shoots he failed to make the Rhodesian Team. "
He shot fantastically well in the Felon shoot and that pulled him up quite a few places," said Westerhout. "But we won because we made less mistakes than the Americans did under pressure. The shooting wasn't that good, it was just that we held on better in the tight spots. "

06-01-2016, 01:40 PM	#2
BigBassMan Registered User Joined: Jun 2015 From: North Posts: 1,584	Airsoft is just a step above nerf guns. Grandkids outgrew both real fast. Attached Thumbnails Garand and FordPrefect like this.

06-01-2016, 01:53 PM	#3
BigEd63 Registered User Joined: Dec 2004 From: Arkansas Posts: 4,130	There's airsoft and there's airsoft. Go to a site like airsplat.com and you'll see the difference. There's the cheap dollar store trash and then there ts the Japanese made stuff meant to have as close as the looks weight/balance and manual of arms as the real firearms they are designed to replicate. All said and done for force on force I'd rather have something like Simunitions if possible but that's not always the case for non LEO people. And of course back in my early teens some of us practiced the combat zen way of the "Golden BB". And we were dang lucky no one got an eye out. DaRkWoLf likes this.

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06-01-2016, 02:20 PM	#4
Garand Registered User Joined: Jun 2004 From: Canadian Badlands Posts: 8,756	Actually a 12 ga SxS using Winchester "AA" Low Recoil Low Velocity would do you far better than a 20 ga. I still believe Airsoft is for children and the video just re-enforces it.

06-01-2016, 06:49 PM	#6
nikto Registered User Joined: May 2014 From: USA Posts: 3,050	there's $1200, all steel 1911 Airsoft pistols. :-)

06-02-2016, 07:00 AM	#7
Garand Registered User Joined: Jun 2004 From: Canadian Badlands Posts: 8,756	Frankly I have found that those using airsoft in the past have a very hard time treating the "firearm" as a potentially deadly weapon. Its an attitude thing, on a hot range I find everyone is better focused. Melvin can play with his airsoft, it helps him maintain his personal SHTF fantasy where he becomes the evil warlord over all the rest of us. He says he's a good shooter but has yet to tell us where he placed in Rhodesia. That is if he did even attend and doesn't just have the same name as someone who did attend. IF he attended he would know where he placed, who came 1st, which team came first, where the team he was on placed, etc. As in any sport at the beginning of it, the standards set are mediocre compared to what is achievable, 10, 20, 30 years later in the sport. But then again gun games are nothing else but games, and not reality.

06-02-2016, 12:27 PM	#10
nikto Registered User Joined: May 2014 From: USA Posts: 3,050	ok, be stupid, waste time and money. I see a great plenty of unsafe and stupid behaviors with guns, have done quite a few myself. ALL you are is a plinker, with no clue how to hit swiftly, at low cost and with a lot less training time. People who are sloppy with their gunhandling will be so regardless of airsoft or whatever.

06-02-2016, 07:45 PM	#12
BigBassMan Registered User Joined: Jun 2015 From: North Posts: 1,584	Not a lot said anymore about paintball, has it died? Something I used to have fun with when lived in town was spud guns. Now I want to make a 4 man water baloon slingshot an torment boaters an a certain neighbor. (who is a member here!) Think I might go jam a potato in tailpipe of his jeep, he will never find it. Look out George. Or a water cannon mounted on my pontoon!

06-02-2016, 08:02 PM	#13
BigBassMan Registered User Joined: Jun 2015 From: North Posts: 1,584	$1200 for a AIRSOFT! No way in hell! I can buy several real guns for that much!

06-03-2016, 05:42 AM	#14
nikto Registered User Joined: May 2014 From: USA Posts: 3,050	Japanese, man. they can't have real guns. Many spend 100k to come to HI or Guam and shoot for a month.

06-03-2016, 08:35 AM	#16
BigBassMan Registered User Joined: Jun 2015 From: North Posts: 1,584	Wait untill I get a pic of you guarding the Point in your gillie suit with a nerf gun.

06-03-2016, 09:02 AM	#17
BigBassMan Registered User Joined: Jun 2015 From: North Posts: 1,584	By the way George, it is time to make a run to MO or IN for fireworks. I need something to shoot down a drone, YOURS! Will have to get AL in on that one. Also I found something on my porch hidden, Looks like his work.

06-03-2016, 09:39 AM	#18
nikto Registered User Joined: May 2014 From: USA Posts: 3,050	i came 19th in Rhodesia, after not sleeping for 4 days. The .45's had a horrible handicap in that match. the top score with a P35 was 1900+ and the top .45 score was 1600+, turned in by raul walters, of Columbia Mo. I beat him 7-9x that year, on his home range, after traveling 190 miles one way to shoot against him. :-)_ He placed third in the world shoot that year. The Rhodesian team won, I forget who placed where. I think Jerry Usher came 5th, IIRC. My good friend Danny Hartmann came 16th.

06-03-2016, 09:45 AM	#19
nikto Registered User Joined: May 2014 From: USA Posts: 3,050	the standards EYE set, are still top notch, bozo. .70 second average, for surrender start, draw and hit chest, at 5 yds, average of 5 tries. 5.5 second el prez, all hits in the c zone or better, full 10 yds, 3 yd interval, 180 degree pivot, surrender start. full charge ammo, no extended mag release, no comp, no optics, no bade pad on the mag, no mag well funnel. TRY it sometime. :-) OTHER people may have improved, but you're stil the same know nothing that you were 20 years ago.

06-03-2016, 11:26 AM	#20
Garand Registered User Joined: Jun 2004 From: Canadian Badlands Posts: 8,756	IPSC was in its infancy in Rhodesia in 1977 (39 years ago), like any sport the initial standards set are generally exceeded regularly after a few years by the introduction of new kit and enhanced training methods. If you shot the current Single Stack Classics recently I'm sure we would all be impressed with your current abilities in a proven sanctioned match. Since you haven't competed in 39 years, there is no reason to take your word for it. Apparently your memory is faulty Walters score 1802.289, Usher was 8th, not 5th and Hartmann came 22nd not 16th. The best way to end this thread is a quote from Dave Westerhout the winner in 1977; "Asked how he felt about being world champion, Dave said said he could not really believe he had done it. "I'm not sure yet that it actually happened, or whether it is a dream. I was just lucky I guess." Second to Westerhout was Rhodesia's Peter Maunder, 116.403 points behind and third was America's Raul Walters (U.S) a further 41.741 points back. Maunder's efforts was particularly good as, after two mediocre trial shoots he failed to make the Rhodesian Team. " He shot fantastically well in the Felon shoot and that pulled him up quite a few places," said Westerhout. "But we won because we made less mistakes than the Americans did under pressure. The shooting wasn't that good, it was just that we held on better in the tight spots. "