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Old 09-08-2017, 03:48 PM   #1
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Nordic Components .22LR upper

Ran some rounds thru the Nordic Components .22LR upper over the last few days, and thought I’d share my initial impressions. First, the setup – it’s a stock RB22 16” upper, with a heavy barrel and birdcage flash hider. I put it on the lower from my secondary AR carbine, as that lower shares the same CMC trigger and short-throw ambi safety as my primary gun. Figured that would let it come as close as possible to mimicking the “real” gun. My first impression was that the barrel is an unnecessarily heavy profile for a .22LR, but it turned out to actually be a good thing in terms of duplicating the ‘feel’ of an AR carbine. I weighed it for comparison against some other uppers that were on hand, and was surprised at the results. A normal M4-profile upper with Sparc-AR optic is 2.8 oz heavier than the Nordic 22RB with the same optic. On the other hand, my primary AR carbine (a Midwest Industries 16” lightweight upper with MRO optic and WML light) is 6.1 ounces lighter. (Don’t read that as the RB22 being overly heavy – the Midwest pencil upper is just extremely light.) So in terms of weight, the Nordic RB22 upper falls between the two 5.56 AR uppers. It’s heavier than the extremely lightweight Midwest pencil-barreled upper, yet slightly lighter than the M4 profile upper with an identical optic. And because of its weight and barrel length being very much like both of those, it handles very much like both of those; which imo is another very good thing, at least for my intended purpose of cheaply mimicking the feel and function of the centerfire guns.



One disappointment with the RB22 is that there’s enough difference in the upper-receiver dimensions that the magpul b.a.d. lever won’t fit on this upper, so it does lose that commonality between the guns. That said, that’s about the only disappointment with it so far. It likes almost every ammo I’ve tried in it; including cci stingers, federal 36-grain bulkpack hp stuff, aguila ‘super extra’, mini-mags, federal game-shok 40-grain solid, CCI’s plated segmented subsonic, and probably one or two others I’m forgetting. (Side note – why does aguila .22 stuff always smell like their powder is 30% cat urine? It and PMC .223 stuff have that same weird smell.) Anyway, the only two loads the RB22 doesn’t seem to like are the old remington 38-grain LHP subsonic (which, ironically, my old Ciener AR .22 unit just loves) and remington thunderbolt. To be fair to the Nordic, I’ve only tried rounds from one box of each of those two loads, and they were a little gunky from years of non-ideal storage. So fresher samples may work better, but even worst case, I can certainly live with a .22 rimfire that likes all but two loads.

Compared to the old Ciener unit, the Nordic has a couple of noteworthy advantages. First, having its own barrel means that the twist rate is more rimfire-friendly. It uses a 1:16 twist, rather than being stuck with the much faster twist of most AR-type rifles; and that makes for better performance with most .22LR ammunition. As far as “how accurate” it really is, I can’t definitively say. I have just a non-magnified red dot on it, haven’t bothered bench-shooting it for measured groups, and all I can say is that it’s as accurate as I am when shooting offhand with a red dot. The second advantage over the Ciener unit is that it holds the bolt back after the last shot, so you don’t end up dry-firing it, which can sometimes be damaging to both the firing pin and the edge of the chamber itself on rimfires. It holds back on the follower rather than the normal AR bolt catch and drops the bolt home when you remove the magazine, but you can manually use the normal bolt catch to hold it open if you want; for visual chamber-checking, for the “open action” requirements that some ranges have, etc.

So it’s not exactly like a true 5.56 AR functionally, but the bolt hold-open makes it somewhat closer than the old ciener/atchisson conversion kits and it’s certainly closer than the kits that get installed on a lot of 10-22’s and such. Overall, it has hugely impressed me so far. Other than initial pre-use cleaning and lubing, I’ve not cleaned or added lube since; and have put around 900 rounds thru it with no bobbles except the two loads mentioned. Not a single one, which is pretty good for a new rimfire that wasn’t even broken-in yet.

One unavoidable downside to the RB22 is its price. At $479 retail, there’s a bit of sticker-shock for “a .22 rifle”. But for someone who plans to do a lot of shooting, I believe it more than makes sense simply due to ammo-cost savings. At $300 per thousand for .223 and $80 per thousand for .22LR, it will pay for itself in the first 2,000 rounds or so. If you shoot 3-4 thousand rounds thru it per year (which I suspect I’ll more than do, having put ~900 rounds thru it in just this first week), it represents a savings on ammo of five hundred to a thousand dollars every year. Even if you don’t shoot your .223 ar’s that much now, with this thing you might start. It really is a fun little gun that has the side benefit of having (mostly) the same feel and controls of your “real” AR.

If I ever catch their pistol upper version in stock, I’ll probably be sorely tempted by it as a swap-out upper for my one pistol lower. The 16” does well with the mystic-x suppressor, and I can’t help but think that a braced 9” pistol version would probably be even more fun.

All in all, very happy with it. Our sons are coming to visit this weekend, and I plan to give it its first post-use cleaning and grab another brick of .22’s for us play with.
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Old 09-08-2017, 04:02 PM   #2
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Additional thought - supposedly, this upper will also use the old ciener/atchisson magazines and the Nordic (Black Dog) magazines will work in the ciener units. I haven't tried them, but have read that in several places. If it does, great; if not, not a big deal to me personally.

Also, obligatory additional porn. The RB22 with the Mystic-X attached:


It's kind of big for use on a .22LR, but it also fits the .223 and .300BK guns, so again it helps the Nordic unit have the same feel as the centerfire carbines.
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:46 PM   #3
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John- Looks like a nice unit for .22lr . I've been kicking around the idea of either buying a dedicated .22lr upper or building one to my liking. This appears very close to what I want.
 
 
Old 09-11-2017, 04:23 PM   #4
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I've noticed that cat piss smell in PMC .223 also. But for putrid. this 9X18MM Russian stuff takes the breath right out of you.
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Last edited by Terry G; 09-11-2017 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Add
 
Old 09-17-2017, 11:30 AM   #5
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I had a Kuehl precsision upper for a while. Didn't like it at all. Just requires a pita to change over cause the recoil spring was not captive. Very small increase in accuracy, can't lug it around, along with the AR, so why bother with it? So I dumped it, and haven't missed it a lick. Big waste of effort and money. When you use the .22, you dont need a different trigger job or sight ,cause you're using the same one as the 223 uses. What's supposed to be the gain, that justifies the blowing of $800+ (counting the trigger job and the sight)?

Last edited by boati; 09-17-2017 at 11:33 AM.
 
Old 09-18-2017, 09:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
…Very small increase in accuracy, can't lug it around, along with the AR, so why bother with it? )?
Because I enjoy it. I have no intention of lugging around the .22 and the 5.56 AR at the same time. If I were in a ‘wandering hobo of the apocalypse’ scenario that could be a valid consideration; but with nearly 60 years of that not happening in my life, I simply have no expectation OF it happening. And with now more than 65 years of it not happening in your life (happy belated birthday, btw), it would make sense for you to stop having expectations of it as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post

…What's supposed to be the gain, that justifies the blowing of $800+ (counting the trigger job and the sight)?
Don’t forget John – I have a ciener unit and have absolutely put a lot more rounds thru it in the last 15 years than you have. For the fictional ‘wandering hobo of the apocalypse’ scenario, the ciener has advantages. For non-fiction reality, the dedicated upper has several gains/advantages.

First is the rifling twist rate. Accuracy-wise, the ciener does pretty good with a couple loads it likes; primarily the remington 38-grain subsonic non-plated HP load. But with most loads, the typical (ie, too-fast) 1:7 to 1:9 twist of most current-production AR’s is simply not conducive to good accuracy with the light rimfire bullets. That’s not opinion, it’s both first-hand observation over 15 years or so of personal use and mathematical reality that can be verified by most any barrel-twist calculation software we encounter. The heavy 60-grain Aguila SSS load is the one really-close load for use in a 1:7 to 1:9 gun; most other .22lr loads run from 40 grains down to 31 grains, and those bullet weights in that diameter don’t work ideally in those twist rates. Ironically, for a big part of my intended purposes (shooting steel on a timer) they’d work fine, but for your constantly-stated purposes of small-game hunting and silently taking out imaginary sentries with instantly-lethal rimfire head shots, the typical AR’s fast twist rate degrades accuracy and inherently makes them a poor choice. And again John, I have small-game hunted with my ciener unit; in this decade and in the previous one as well. Using the one hp load that it is acceptably accurate with, it does ok. But with most loads, it’s simply not. On the Aguila SSS 60-grain load, its problem is that it doesn't run reliably in my ciener. Whether clean, dirty, lubed or dry, it runs maybe 50% reliably, and that's just unacceptable to me personally. So the ciener is acceptably reliable with a lot of loads, acceptably accurate with two loads, but only acceptably accurate and acceptably reliable with the one load - the remington 38-grain non-plated subsonic - and that's just way too limiting.

Another advantage of the dedicated upper is that – unlike the ciener/atchisson – it holds the bolt open after the last shot, which prevents dropping the hammer on an empty chamber. And yes, that’s a real issue on a rimfire. Not a personal-preference issue or a convenience issue; it’s an actual damage issue:


Unless a person thinks they can always count on being able to either reload before empty or always accurately count their shots, that’s a real problem on a rimfire. It leads to damaged chambers and broken firing pins. I’ve broken two firing pins on my ciener (maybe three, but I think just two), and I’m probably more careful than most people about dropping the hammer on an empty chamber.

On the “blowing $800”, I understand what you mean. If a person had to start from scratch and ended up with what’s in the picture they would probably spend about that, but I simply didn’t spend anywhere near that on it. The spare lower, I already had; so no out-of-pocket cost. The red dot was sitting here unused. (I was considering putting it on the .300bk pistol, but the fairly-inexpensive holosun on it is still doing fine, so I went ahead & put the unused sparc to use.) So no out-of-pocket cost. The msrp on the upper is $479, but since the shop I ordered it from owed us more than half that my total out-of-pocket cost was right at $200; not $800. Even at the full $479, it pays for itself in just a couple thousand rounds, which will be well within the first year. So in the long run, it’s cheaper than using the 5.56 gun, without the chamber damage caused when fast-firing the ciener unit and hammer-dropping on an empty chamber, and more accurate with cheap bulk ammo to boot. And before you say that it’s stupid to shoot that much, don’t forget that you’re the one who used to brag about shooting more than 25,000 rounds in a single six-week period.

Objectively, much more upside than downside, other than being basically a separate gun and so more bulky than the ciener unit. If wandering-hobo-of-the-apocalypse application was factored in, the ciener unit does have that one advantage. But for those of us that are either approaching (ie, “me”) or already at (ie, “you”) senior-citizen status, that particular consideration has pretty much no logical weight in the decision-making process.

Oh, and on the “pita to change since it’s a non-captive spring”, that’s one advantage had by those of us not still basing our decisions on 1970’s options. The Nordic upper comes with the Black Dog bolt saver, which holds everything in place exactly as should be, when the upper is removed from the lower.



So; simple as ABC…

A – In the long run, cost is a non-issue since it will more than pay for itself in less than a single year. I concede that long-run thinking is not generally in your comfort zone, but it’s how rational people do things.

B - Its bolt-hold-open function means no typical rimfire (and ciener) type damage from dry-firing when the mag runs empty in the middle of a shot string. And

C - It’s more accurate with more loads than the ciener. (And again, I’ve used both. You haven’t)


What the heck – let’s throw in another, since you specifically brought up the particular subject:
D - The bolt-saver means that its internals are actually held MORE securely in place than even a normal AR upper when the upper is removed from the lower.

So (and again, this is from a guy who owns both and uses both), other than foot-bound post-apocalyptic wasteland wanderings, the dedicated upper beats the ciener in every category.
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Last edited by John in AR; 09-18-2017 at 09:55 AM. Reason: {edited because I errantly put "36 grain" instead of "38 grain" in referring to the remington subsonic load}
 
Old 09-19-2017, 12:31 PM   #7
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And again we see gunkid's habitual "pontificating drive-by sermon, followed by silence and unwillingness to discuss or debate the actual topic" approach.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste; but then ambien and trazadone may be a more entertaining cocktail than I give it credit for.
 
Old 09-19-2017, 12:36 PM   #8
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It's the old "Don't confuse me with fact's, my mind is made up." What does Melvin really know about current firearms? Certainly nothing hands on.
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:55 PM   #9
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It's the old "Don't confuse me with fact's, my mind is made up."...
Sad but true - makes me think of the old Zig Ziglar line - "Some people's minds are like concrete. All mixed up and permanently set."

In the 70's and even 80's, his points on this topic would be more realistic. Back then most AR's had slower twist rates than today, and back then the simple, cheap $4 bolt saver wasn't around. Frankly, the bolt saver is a good idea if you have spare AR uppers at all imo, not just for .22LR uppers. It keeps the bolt carrier group from jostling out of the tunnel, which both protects the bcg and charging handle in general and also keeps the bcg from opening the ejection-port cover; which is also a good thing in storage or transport.

But these things weren't the case during the Jimmy Carter years, so they must obviuosly be irrelevant. Any other possibility is decried as heresy by our drive-by firearm-televangelist.
 
Old 09-19-2017, 04:27 PM   #10
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I might have to clean my Ceiner unit for the 45, has not been cleanded in about 5 years an untold thousands rounds, took it out today an was hard to chamber, had to push the slide closed. A brush an some oil might have helped but did not have any. Still accurate as hell. 45 Match gun put about 60 rounds of 200gr. H&G #68 into a golf ball size group about 2 in. to right, did not even have anything along to move sight over. So much for FordPerfects idea of traveling light. Should have saved target for pic.
 
Old 10-11-2017, 08:52 PM   #11
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Greeting I'm a fellow 22rb owner, i ended up making some mod to build a dedicated ar22 that work with the highly regarded s&w 15-22 mags (which i have several already before getting the 22rb) and functional bolt catch that does not rely on the mag follower to keep the bolt open. Shoot at least 1moa if not better, managed to qual for rifleman twice at Appleseed with this build.

I documented my mod/progress at the link below mostly on the second page, don't want to repost everything

http://forums.brianenos.com/index.ph...s-are-in-stock!
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:37 PM   #12
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Bitslizer - interesting bolt hold-open mod there; thanks for the link. Don't expect I'll do it anytime soon, as I'm swamped with work and house-build project, but it's good to know it's doable if I ever want to give it a shot.

I don't have any of the M&P mags; just using the black dog and nordic mags so far. Do you happen to know if they're inter-compatible?
 
Old 04-13-2020, 08:34 AM   #13
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Fwiw, the Nordic rimfire, before and after swapping the red dot to the Riton 2-7x32.


Makes it a little heavier & handle some different, and I don't really like finger-adjustable turrets, but the 2-7x magnification is nice to have and I like it so far.


I also know you really "shouldn't" bridge the mounts between the receiver and forend like that, but it's just a rimfire and these risers were what I had on hand.
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Old 04-13-2020, 05:40 PM   #14
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John, What you have there is similar to what I want to build as a .22lr twin for my 5.56NATO designated marksman rifle.
I intend to use 16" Lothar - Walther .22lr AR barrel and put together a dedicated upper to swap out with the 5.56NATO one to shoot in the back yard.

This won't be a cheap project but I want precision in this case.

BTW -. They Lothar-Walther produces shorty barrels as well, around 10" and 5-6" , can't remember exactly.
Right now I also have a CMMG unit with 3 extra magazines (so far) . I'm going to run it tomorrow Weather and Covid19 permitting.

Here is my pistol and the CMMG Unit. Darn glad they changed polymer material and color look at that older light gray mag glow like a Firefly.
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Last edited by BigEd; 04-13-2020 at 06:20 PM. Reason: Add pics
 
Old 04-15-2020, 08:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
I had a Kuehl precsision upper for a while. Didn't like it at all. Just requires a pita to change over cause the recoil spring was not captive. Very small increase in accuracy, can't lug it around, along with the AR, so why bother with it? So I dumped it, and haven't missed it a lick. Big waste of effort and money. When you use the .22, you dont need a different trigger job or sight ,cause you're using the same one as the 223 uses. What's supposed to be the gain, that justifies the blowing of $800+ (counting the trigger job and the sight)?
Not sure why you want to lug both around, or if you do, why that's an issue.
But the money is not an issue if you have it. I think a lot of people have bought stuff and will continue to buy stuff that is impractical, simply because they choose to.

If dropping $800.00 on this set up brings him pleasure, or fulfills a niche in his gear, who cares?

I'm intrigued and may look into getting one in the near future. I have a lower and optics, so for me the cost would simply be the upper and some magazines.

it might be worth it, though I was going to build either a .458 or a .450 on the lower I have in the safe (it's already assembled, just needs an upper)
 
Old 04-15-2020, 10:33 AM   #16
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Not sure why you want to lug both around, or if you do, why that's an issue...
If gunkid were the type to respond civilly to having his pontifications questioned I'd wait & let him answer, but that's not his strong suit. So since I've 'known' him online for over 20 years, I'll chime in.

Mainly, you have to consider the context of the speaker. With gunkid, everything gun-related must be about either combat or post-shtf survival foraging, so in his mind you need both the .223 and the .22LR actually with you, at all times. (Never mind that as long as he's here in the US, he's never allowed to have any guns with him, but that's a different reality-check topic.)

Anyway, having the AR plus conversion kit "always at hand" would certainly be easier to do than having an AR and a dedicated 22 rifle. Not knocking AR conversion kits, I have one & like it. But the two realities that trump his multi-decade apocalyptic dreams are that I simply DON'T need to have both with me at all times, and that the AR with conversion kit has more limitations & problems than the dedicated 22 rifle.

But as to 'why' he wants us to lug both around, that's the explanation. We must have both available, actually with us, at all times. Because of the end of the world.
 
Old 04-15-2020, 11:35 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
If gunkid were the type to respond civilly to having his pontifications questioned I'd wait & let him answer, but that's not his strong suit. So since I've 'known' him online for over 20 years, I'll chime in.

Mainly, you have to consider the context of the speaker. With gunkid, everything gun-related must be about either combat or post-shtf survival foraging, so in his mind you need both the .223 and the .22LR actually with you, at all times. (Never mind that as long as he's here in the US, he's never allowed to have any guns with him, but that's a different reality-check topic.)

Anyway, having the AR plus conversion kit "always at hand" would certainly be easier to do than having an AR and a dedicated 22 rifle. Not knocking AR conversion kits, I have one & like it. But the two realities that trump his multi-decade apocalyptic dreams are that I simply DON'T need to have both with me at all times, and that the AR with conversion kit has more limitations & problems than the dedicated 22 rifle.

But as to 'why' he wants us to lug both around, that's the explanation. We must have both available, actually with us, at all times. Because of the end of the world.
Ok, makes sense also explains a lot of his posts. Thanks
 
Old 11-10-2020, 08:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
Ran some rounds thru the Nordic Components .22LR upper over the last few days, and thought I’d share my initial impressions. First, the setup – it’s a stock RB22 16” upper, with a heavy barrel and birdcage flash hider. I put it on the lower from my secondary AR carbine, as that lower shares the same CMC trigger and short-throw ambi safety as my primary gun. Figured that would let it come as close as possible to mimicking the “real” gun. My first impression was that the barrel is an unnecessarily heavy profile for a .22LR, but it turned out to actually be a good thing in terms of duplicating the ‘feel’ of an AR carbine. I weighed it for comparison against some other uppers that were on hand, and was surprised at the results. A normal M4-profile upper with Sparc-AR optic is 2.8 oz heavier than the Nordic 22RB with the same optic. On the other hand, my primary AR carbine (a Midwest Industries 16” lightweight upper with MRO optic and WML light) is 6.1 ounces lighter. (Don’t read that as the RB22 being overly heavy – the Midwest pencil upper is just extremely light.) So in terms of weight, the Nordic RB22 upper falls between the two 5.56 AR uppers. It’s heavier than the extremely
lightweight Midwest pencil-barreled upper, yet slightly lighter than the M4


profile upper with an identical optic. And because of its weight and barrel length being very much like both of those, it handles very much like both of those; which imo is another very good thing, at least for my intended purpose of cheaply mimicking the feel and function of the centerfire guns.



One disappointment with the RB22 is that there’s enough difference in the upper-receiver dimensions that the magpul b.a.d. lever won’t fit on this upper, so it does lose that commonality between the guns. That said, that’s about the only disappointment with it so far. It likes almost every ammo I’ve tried in it; including cci stingers, federal 36-grain bulkpack hp stuff, aguila ‘super extra’, mini-mags, federal game-shok 40-grain solid, CCI’s plated segmented subsonic, and probably one or two others I’m forgetting. (Side note – why does aguila .22 stuff always smell like their powder is 30% cat urine? It and PMC .223 stuff have that same weird smell.) Anyway, the only two loads the RB22 doesn’t seem to like are the old remington 38-grain LHP subsonic (which, ironically, my old Ciener AR .22 unit just loves) and remington thunderbolt. To be fair to the Nordic, I’ve only tried rounds from one box of each of those two loads, and they were a little gunky from years of non-ideal storage. So fresher samples may work better, but even worst case, I can certainly live with a .22 rimfire that likes all but two loads.

Compared to the old Ciener unit, the Nordic has a couple of noteworthy advantages. First, having its own barrel means that the twist rate is more rimfire-friendly. It uses a 1:16 twist, rather than being stuck with the much faster twist of most AR-type rifles; and that makes for better performance with most .22LR ammunition. As far as “how accurate” it really is, I can’t definitively say. I have just a non-magnified red dot on it, haven’t bothered bench-shooting it for measured groups, and all I can say is that it’s as accurate as I am when shooting offhand with a red dot. The second advantage over the Ciener unit is that it holds the bolt back after the last shot, so you don’t end up dry-firing it, which can sometimes be damaging to both the firing pin and the edge of the chamber itself on rimfires. It holds back on the follower rather than the normal AR bolt catch and drops the bolt home when you remove the magazine, but you can manually use the normal bolt catch to hold it open if you want; for visual chamber-checking, for the “open action” requirements that some ranges have, etc.

So it’s not exactly like a true 5.56 AR functionally, but the bolt hold-open makes it somewhat closer than the old ciener/atchisson conversion kits and it’s certainly closer than the kits that get installed on a lot of 10-22’s and such. Overall, it has hugely impressed me so far. Other than initial pre-use cleaning and lubing, I’ve not cleaned or added lube since; and have put around 900 rounds thru it with no bobbles except the two loads mentioned. Not a single one, which is pretty good for a new rimfire that wasn’t even broken-in yet.

One unavoidable downside to the RB22 is its price. At $479 retail, there’s a bit of sticker-shock for “a .22 rifle”. But for someone who plans to do a lot of shooting, I believe it more than makes sense simply due to ammo-cost savings. At $300 per thousand for .223 and $80 per thousand for .22LR, it will pay for itself in the first 2,000 rounds or so. If you shoot 3-4 thousand rounds thru it per year (which I suspect I’ll more than do, having put ~900 rounds thru it in just this first week), it represents a savings on ammo of five hundred to a thousand dollars every year. Even if you don’t shoot your .223 ar’s that much now, with this thing you might start. It really is a fun little gun that has the side benefit of having (mostly) the same feel and controls of your “real” AR.

If I ever catch their pistol upper version in stock, I’ll probably be sorely tempted by it as a swap-out upper for my one pistol lower. The 16” does well with the mystic-x suppressor, and I can’t help but think that a braced 9” pistol version would probably be even more fun.

All in all, very happy with it. Our sons are coming to visit this weekend, and I plan to give it its first post-use cleaning and grab another brick of .22’s for us play with.
In 2004, i paid $450 for a Kuel Precision upper and it wasn't warth half that much. In today's $, that's $900. It deliverd 1" at 50 yds, scoped from the bench, but the .22 unit delivered 2", 1 in 9" twist. So I was very unimpressed. It was a pita to swap calibers with, cause the recoil spring was not held captive, as it is with the .22 conversion unit Dont waste your money, guys. The .22 unit lets you carry it in the thigh pocket of your cammies, for a different caliber in 10 seconds, cf to rf. The reverse swap is a lot slower. but still well under 20 seconds.
 
Old 11-10-2020, 10:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
In 2004, i paid $450 for a Kuel Precision upper and it wasn't warth half that much. In today's $, that's $900. It deliverd 1" at 50 yds, scoped from the bench, but the .22 unit delivered 2", 1 in 9" twist. So I was very unimpressed. It was a pita to swap calibers with, cause the recoil spring was not held captive, as it is with the .22 conversion unit Dont waste your money, guys. The .22 unit lets you carry it in the thigh pocket of your cammies, for a different caliber in 10 seconds, cf to rf. The reverse swap is a lot slower. but still well under 20 seconds.
You already said that. In this thread. Three years ago.
 
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