Anyone with first-hand experience with JRC Carbines?
Anyone have any first-hand experience with Just Right Carbines? I'm at the one time per year that I order either a new gun or something similar from a local gunshop that owes money for work we've done for them over the course of the year. (Last year, got a Uberti .45LC SA revolver.) This year, after doing some online researching, I had him order a Just Right 9mm carbine; should be in next week or so.
I plan to shoot a lot less rifle-caliber stuff in the near future, as I don't really enjoy reloading bottleneck cases; but I still want to shoot some long guns, just not long-gun calibers. With as quick, cheap, and easy as the 9mm is to load, I plan to stick with more pistol-caliber stuff a lot more, with 9mm for the vast majority of my 'fun' centerfire shooting use. The only 9mm carbine I currently have is a ~30 year old Camp-9, and it’s not really meant as a high-volume-use gun; hence the JRC on the way.
I’ve already committed so this isn’t a “should I do it” thread; just curious for any personal experience with them. I asked around on several other forums before ordering, but realized that I hadn’t asked here.
I don't have experience with JRC, but I'd recommend looking at QC10 / Quarter Circle for that concept and form factor. Their stuff tends to work exceptionally well. Had a demo postie using their stuff that sang like a charm. You won't have a myriad of issues with the QC10 designs that are possible if not frequent with others. Outside of what is explicitly proprietary, it's simple AR commercial territory for you to do what you want with.
In terms of you getting what's owed, if it was me I wouldn't put more than a $300 value on what you've been offered (generously) in today's market.
Not familiar with the QC10 stuff, but I've already committed on the JRC, so it is what it is at this point. I looked at several 9mm carbines (not just AR style), with a couple primary considerations. I wanted it to be able to use either glock or M&P magazines ideally, with smith 59-series as an acceptable but less than ideal third choice.
After a bit of looking into them, it seemed to boil down to the JRC, the TNW, and the Sub-2000. I had a sub-2000 ten years or so ago and it was one of the worst guns I've ever owned. That, plus the fact that I wanted something to potentially put a LOT of rounds thru, meant the sub-2000 was dropped from consideration pretty early.
The consensus of what I've read on the others is that the JRC gives up some of the light weight of the TNW, but tends to surpass it in reliability. (Again, just what I've read; no personal experience with either brand yet.) So since I'm looking for a playing-at-plates gun rather than a carry-it-backpacking gun, I went with the JRC. The JRC also has the benefit of using actual AR triggers & manual safety assemblies, so I can upgrade those if I ever wanted to. Only time will tell if it was a good decision...
The JRC has take-down and standard models, and I had him order the take-down. The standard has somewhat of a reputation of being a pain to disassemble for thorough cleaning, and since I figure I'll be shooting a lot of my cast-bullet reloads through it, I want cleaning & maintenance to be as simple as possible.
On the money aspect of it, it was over $300 involved, but the JRC's run $600-$775 at Bud's and even higher on gunbroker, and what he owed us was less than that. Nowadays, $300 will just barely buy a basic 10-22; at least in our area.
I had never heard of them until you posted. Looks like the design is pretty basic. Make sure you do a range report. I've never owned a pistol caliber carbine, with the exception of that 15 lb. 9 MM Suomi monster I bought.
[QUOTE=Terry G;268281]...I've never owned a pistol caliber carbine, with the exception of that 15 lb. 9 MM Suomi monster I bought.[/QUOTE]
Dude... Telling me you don't have any pistol-caliber carbines is like telling Billy Graham that you've never heard of "this Jesus guy"...
I friggin [I][U]LOVE[/U][/I] my PCC's; one of my favorite soapbox topics. First one I bought was a little 16" 1892 replica in .357 magnum, bought more than 20 years ago and still have it. From the time I got it, I knew I 'liked' it, but only when I chronographed some loads from it did I finally understand what they can be capable of. Even using generic reloads at the time that weren't tailored for the carbine-length barrel, the .38 specials from the carbine were as powerful as the magnums were from my 4" 681 smith. That frankly shocked the foo out of me; I had NO idea what the extra 12" of barrel could do. Now that I do load some rounds that are tailored for the carbine, I hit right at 1980-2010 fps with a 140-grain bullet from that little 16" carbine. That's more than 1,200 ft/lbs of energy, behind a respectable-weight, 35-caliber bullet, out of a gun that is still soft-shooting, and is actually [i]smaller[/i] than a ruger 10-22 rimfire rifle. As I said, blew my mind.
Even non-magnum handgun calibers can accomplish surprising amounts from a carbine barrel, although not as dramatic as the magnums. My little Camp-9 runs something like 740 ft/lbs (1825 fps) with corbon Pow'rball stuff, and runs more than 665-670 ft/lbs (~1600-1625 fps) with both cor-bon 115 jhp and even with the old-yet-great 9BPLE.
But even non-plus-p stuff will surprise you. Would you believe that plain-jane, white-box, ww-usa 115 jhp from the little 16" carbine is actually [i][u]more powerful[/i][/u] than the "mighty" 10mm is from a pistol? Yep, it runs 1505fps for (iirc) 579 ft/lbs of energy. It was another one of those "blew my mind" moments when I made that comparison/connection - that the much-maligned, soft-shooting, 9mm carbine that's so-often called a pipsqueak, waste, or joke; even when loaded with low-end, generic, white-box ammunition, would actually still be more powerful than the awe-inspiring and worshipped-by-many 10mm is from a full-size pistol.
I've now got handgun-caliber carbines in .357 (lever-action and single-shot), .44, .45LC, .454, and 9mm. This JRC will be my second in 9mm, and if it's any good at all, it may well be my most-used long gun next year.
I'm enlightened. I always figured why carry a pistol cartridge carbine when I have a perfectly fine .223 16" Colt AR-15 Carbine? I mean, I'm carrying a 9MM or .45 on my belt. I hadn't really thought of the carbine barrel length enhancing the performance that much. Live and learn. Also, I carried and taught the Colt 9MM sub-machine gun and wasn't terribly impressed. The gun shot well enough, but I didn't like the magazine and the magazine catch left something to be desired. It often failed to lock the magazine resulting in a pretty stream of 9MM rounds exiting the magazine when it hit the ground. Anyway, maybe I'll take a look them. I haven't bought a new gun in almost three months.
Terry - fwiw, I dug around and found this thread from six months or so ago about handgun-caliber carbines.
They're not just one of my favorite topics, they're about my favorite kind of gun. They're just capable, without a lot of pretense or flashiness to them.
On the Colt 9mm smg, I never owned one, but have used one and wasn't at all impressed. The 9mm AR's are generally considered problematic from a reliability standpoint, which is completely understandable and really not even their fault. It was designed as a gas-operated semiauto, and then converted (some say bastardized) into blowback function. And it has issues, or at least a lot of them do. Carbines that are designed from the beginning for the type of action that pistol calibers prefer, tend to to better. The camp-9, the beretta cx- series, and even hi-points tend to have better user reviews for reliability than true "AR" guns in pistol calibers.
Regardless, looking forward to the JRC; hope it works as well as most of the online reviews and discussions say it does.
I have lever action carbines in .357, .44 & .45LC. Other than that I find I have no real use for a semi auto carbines in other handgun calibers. Last couple of years I am trying to trim the herd down to those that I compete with in numerous disciplines.
Garand, what make of .357 Carbine? I assume you use .38 Special loads also. Have you got a picture?
Old picture; the 1906 Winchester M92 in .44, the 1906 Winchester M94 in .38-55 + the Rossi M92 has been sold, still have the .357 Uberti M73, the .357 Browning B92, the Marlin M1894S in .44. Not shown is the wife's Marlin M1894C in .357 and my Uberti M73 in .45LC
Thanks. I'm leaning toward a .357 or .45 Colt lever action rather than a semi-auto Carbine.
[QUOTE=Terry G;268385]Thanks. I'm leaning toward a .357 or .45 Colt lever action...[/QUOTE]
Hugely versatile imo.
I honestly believe that a .357 carbine could [i][u]ballistically[/i][/u] do 95% of anything that a private citizen needs doing. If there were a box-fed semiauto carbine in .357, I'd change that to "it could do anything a civilian needs a rifle for, other than long-range hunting". From light mouse-fart loads for pot animals, up to the same muzzle energy as a full-size AR in 5.56, it can fill a whole lot of needs. Pop a suppressor on it, and you can run subsonic rounds that sound like a pellet gun, yet match a .45acp hardball load for muzzle energy. Awesomely capable caliber in a carbine.
If you're thinking about a .45LC (which is a good choice imo), you might consider a .454 levergun. I don't know how many are out there, but like the .357 version, it gives the option of the lighter .45LC rounds plus the hugely more powerful .454 loads. My 20" .454 levergun puts out right at 2,990 ft/lbs with winchester's 260-grain load, and over 2,700 ft/lbs with numerous factory loads. Or, for a real pussycat of a load, a simple 200-grain LSWC over 7.3 grains of Bullseye. From my 5" revolver, it runs 385 or so ft/lbs; from the carbine, it's something like 665 ft/lbs. And a .45LC round from a carbine is one of the softest, most non-traumatizing shooting experiences out there.
Okay... Time for porn. :laugh:
Old 16" in .357 magnum with scout-mounted red dot sight and titanium suppressor. It's been one of my most-used carbines ever since having those two things added to it:
Notice that without the suppressor in place, the thing is actually SMALLER than the ruger 10-22 rimfire. (This pic was after having it threaded, but before the red dot):
For something even less expensive and more compact, a .357 single shot with the barrel shortened to 16.25" and threaded.
With suppressor in place, it looks just about like a normal single-shot carbine:
Without the suppressor it looks odd, but it's still over 16" (so NFA issues), it's just ridiculously handy in the woods, and is still as powerful as a .44 magnum handgun when using full magnum loads:
For setting up as a combo, the .357, .44, .45LC, or .454Casull make very good caliber choices. I only have levergun/revolver combos in .357 and .454; but any of them would serve fine imo. The 16" in .357 with bushnell red dot scout-mounted makes a very fast brush gun. Handgun is a 681 in a Milt Sparks PMK:
Loaded properly, the .454 version is actually more powerful than a .308 or .45-70 either one. This is mine, with my ruger srh after I had the srh barrel shortened to 5 inches. There's not an animal in North America that can't be taken out to 150 yards or more with a .454 levergun:
These are my only three leverguns - 20-inch stainless in .454 on top, 16" .44 in the middle, and 16" .357 on bottom:
Nothing bad to say about any of them except that I wish they used a faster twist rate so I could use heavier bullets when loading subsonic .357's for use thru the suppressor. With their slow 1:30 twist rate (which is still faster than Marlin's 1:38 twist rate), I don't use bullets heavier than 158's in it; but 158's at 1,000 fps is still about .45 hardball power, which is fine for a short-range critter getter.
When not using the suppressor, I use full-power loads which in a .357 carbine more than equal a .44 magnum revolver - good for darn near anything in my area. Very versatile little carbines.
Much like the .357 single shot above, you can get a very pretty single shot in .45LC from H&R. I've had this one for about six years now and like it quite a bit. Since taking this pic, I've added a little 1-4X scope on it, which made it even more versatile. (The eyes aren't what they used to be):
That's an H&R, but I've had equally good luck with NEF & even Rossi single-shots as well, in .357 magnum, .223, and 7.62x39 as well. Obviously not defensive-duty guns, but for a handy, quick little brush gun, I've come to appreciate the exposed-hammer carbines.
I've even got an extremely-ugly single-shot in .300 blackout, made by CVA of all people. But with the silly ~$229 price and it being factory-threaded, I couldn't pass it up.
One of the nice things about lever action pistol caliber carbines is the fact with all the Cowboy Action gunsmiths available the actions can be made as smooth as butter and fitted with a short stroke kit. You actually have gunsmiths that specialize in levers. If you are going to buy I would suggest that you go 1st to a Uberti M73, one slicked up you will never need another lever. 2nd a Marlin M1984 and lastly a Winchester M92 clone.
The problem I have found personally that with a bit of practice you can run a Winchester M92 faster than it was designed to be run. When my wife and I were both using Winchester 92, me in .44 her in .357, we both ended up with stovepipes during matches as the guns were not designed for that.
Nice looking group of levers!
Okay, a more up to date picture, taken this morning
1) Shilo Sharps #3 Sporting Rifle in .45-70
2) 1906 mfg Winchester M94 in .38-55
3) Uberti M73 in .45LC
4) Uberti M73 in .357 (converted to .38 spl)
5) Marlin M1894S in .44 Mag
6) Marlin M1894C in .357 (converted to .38 Spl)
7) Browning B92 in .357 (converted to .38 Spl)
8) Winchester M94 in .32-40 (John Wayne Commemorative)
You need to sell a few of those, I will take #6
Stop it already, I'm wiping drool off my chin!
Garand, I see you sold a Rossi. Problems? Or just didn't like it?
The Winchester 94's are fun guns in calibers that are not known for competition in their configuration. The Browning B92 is now strictly a backup gun because of problems previously mentioned. You can't find a slicker rifle than the Uberti M73 once it has been slicked. Both my wife and I could run the Rossi faster than it was made to go, plus the large loop lever added 10 seconds to every stage I shot with it. Large loop levers look pretty but have no place in competition shooting.
Levers are those "non threatening" style of firearms that anti guns have a tendency to ignore and are very easy to teach a non shooter to use in a short period of time and ensure that they don't waste ammunition. Every style of firearm has its own advantages and disadvantages, versatility!
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