Garand

If Melvin's fantasy ever comes about and you have to bug out, how easy is it to move your ammunition? What would you pack it in? What would be the maximum weight per container?

John in AR

How easy? - not at all. There's just a lot involved; there's factory ammo, reloads, reloading components, even bulk lead for casting bullets. Lot of bulk, and everything about it except powder is inherently heavy.

That said, if I were ever faced with a bugout situation, I wouldn't try to carry it all; I'd try to carry enough to get me 'out' of whatever problem I was in. That's a part of why I like medium calibers over heavy calibers for defensive purposes. There's just less weight and burden involved in trying to carry a full kit of 5.56 vs 30-06 or something.

And all THAT said, I can't envision many bugout-necessary situations to begin with. I'm no longer young, our business is in a pretty rural location, and our home is in a VERY rural location. Short of a location-specific situation that made it impossible to stay at home, there's just not many places better for us to bug out to.

'Home is where the heart is', as they say; and in our case, it's also where the big, isolate-able concrete storm cellar is.

boati

you're not moving any ammo, other than the carry load. Which is why you need a silencer and a .22lr conversion unit. Also why you need armor, night vision, skill and sneakiness, as well as caches. Cause you aint gonna get to stay where you are. It'll be very simple to smoke you out and probably easy to snipe you, too. Since almost everyone is dumb enough to be out and about during daylight hours.

Garand

and the fantasy returns..........................

John in AR

Again I ask for historical precedent for this - for scenarios where the only people who survived long-term were those who ran to the woods. You've said history is "full" of examples, so please share a half-dozen or so.

Garand

Melvin, if the "balloon ever went up", and you had to leave your primary residence most intelligent people would bring as much required equipment if possible to their eventual destination. If they couldn't make it in one trip it might have to be cached. Having it easily transportable at a moments notice might help you down the road.

Jammer Six

No disaster other than war has ever affected the entire continental U.S.

Water, power, natural gas. If we lose one of them, fine. If we lose two of them, we're out of here. We're going where the lights are still on, the coffee is still hot, and credit cards still work, however far that is.

We'll be back when the mess is cleaned up.

boati

if you need much ammo at all for shtf, you're doing so many things wrong that you wont make it. If you survive needing 200 rds of 223 and 1000 rds of 22lr in 10 years, it wiil be by sheer luck. You just dont understand enough about how to avoid trouble or how to win if you can't avoid it.

Garand

Melvin, there is nothing written anywhere that accurately gives figures of what amount and nature of ammo that would be required covering the wildly diverse geographical area covered by North America. Fine, limit yourself, refuse to think outside the box. A person that has properly planned ahead will have a cache at their eventual location. Bringing additional supplies, is just common sense.

Garand

I think back about 17-18 years ago, at that time I lived in a townhouse style condo, 3 floors. I had a leaky basement. At the time all my ammo was stored in military metal ammunition boxes in the basement. I think I had about 12-15 full boxes at the time. Just moving that much ammo from the basement to the top floor to let the workers in was quite a chore, but it was well organized so it went fast.

Terry G

Yes, I always take advice on arms and ammunition from someone that has neither.

Dorobuta

You seem to “know what everyone else knows” yet you cannot articulate a coherent argument for your choices, in camping gear or fighting gear...

Dorobuta

There’s a problem (several actually) with relying on caches.
Caches can be damaged, discovered, or inaccessible - for a wide variety of reasons. Having grab and go kits in addition to a BOB is a useful strategy, as is layering your gear, so if you have to go light and fast, you can shed layers of gear without taking yourself out of the fight.

If the fight comes to you during daylight hours, you are going to find yourself out during those hours.

Counter sniper is hard for a team, if you’re alone it’s almost impossible. 223 is not an optimal choice for that duty.

Garand

Absolutely correct! Caches are a problem because throughout the time that you set them up until the time you require them, you have absolutely no control over them. They are a gamble from the word go. But if they are still available to you when "the balloon goes up" they are a benefit to you. Depending the size of your cache and what you plan to position in it, your financial investment (or loss) can be less than $100.00. Someone on moderate income could preposition 5-6 of these throughout a year long period. If you need them and they are available, they are invaluable. If they are lost or discovered financial loss is minimal and they can be replaced.

Dorobuta

Correct, but depending on them is not the best strategy. Having them is not a bad idea, but they should be a supplement to a plan, not the basis of a plan.

Start with the assumption you will not have access to them and plan accordingly. Then, if you do have access, they’re a bonus. But if you depend on them and they are not available, you’re screwed.

I’m not saying to not have them, just recognize things don’t often go as planned or imagined.

John in AR

Well put.

Garand

Old army saying "No plan survives first contact with the enemy". If the "balloon goes up" absolutely nothing can be guaranteed. I've been trying to get this across to Melvin for almost the whole 24 years he has followed me across the web.