Kilibreaux

Talk about all the new calibers to have come along over the last half century and one must ask, why aren't more people excited about the Winchester 9x23? Why haven't gun makers jumped all over it?

Okay, they thunk up the 357 SIG and the 9x25 Dillion, but why? The 9x23 Winchester is basically a .38 Super on steroids and will run with the best of the Janie-come-lately bottlenecks!

The 9x23 uses a massively thick-walled case and is rated to 55K psi! Winchester still loads ammo for it - 125 grain at 1,450 and that's just starting to get warmed up!

Sure the 9x23, like the 9x25 must be chambered in a .45 ACP length action, but consider a Glock 20 that normally carried 15 rounds in the magazine, now chambered in 9x23 carrying 17-18. Plus, the smaller bore means the cartridge centerline sits close to the bore axis, which translate into high feed reliability - something .38 Super owners know very well.

Also, being a straight-walled case, loading is much simpler, with bullet setback being far less of an issue than with pistol-profile bottleneck rounds.

gripper

I've always been interested in the 9x23 Winchester...and,as an added bonus;some of the guns chambered in it are readily convertible between.38 Super,9mm Largo;and a few others.
Great ballistic performance;not ridiculous to reload or form cases for... always wondered why it never seemed more widespread....

John in AR

Slightly longer oal than .45acp would create a 'fit' issue in a lot of guns, and especially a lot of double-stack guns.

Main reason imo is probably just that it's not mainstream. (Kind of a circular logic I realize - it's not mainstream because so few people use it, and so few people use it because it's not mainstream - but it's a reality sometimes.) Much like other completely fine cartridges like the .356 tsw, the .41AE, the 9x21, etc. Any of them can serve just fine, but the lack of market penetration means there's not a lot of affordable ammo options. And a lack of affordable ammo options means there's not going to be a lot of market penetration.

Also, there's always the "how much better is it" question. It's very capable, pushing a 124-grain bullet at 1450 or so. But a high-end 9mm load can push a 115-grainer at close to 1400 or so, and at the same time allow for cheap shooting with generic stuff. In 9mm, I get 1463 fps from a glock 19 and 1375 even from the little G26, with 100-grain corbon stuff. Is the extra 150 or so fps (or the extra 15-25 grains of bullet weight) that the 9x23 offers, worth missing out on the lower-cost bulk ammo of the 9mm or other common calibers? To some it might be; but evidently, to most people it's not.

gripper

By the same token I like this cartridge for the same reasons I like the 10 mm: Yes,the shorter OAL " mainstream accepted calibers" can approach the lower end performance threshold of the longer calibers. But they do so at higher operating pressures due to lesser case volume... whereas the " Longer ones not welcome at Cool Kid's Table of Mass Market Penetration" start out at the limits of the smaller ones and can step down via reduced loadings or conversion barrels with few(if any) issues.

boati

that don't make the ammo 20c a shot. many are dummies about large bores and bullet weight. Many more are dummies about revolvers and double stack mags. They already HAVE the 9mm or the 40, so why bother with a 9x23? People who really want top performance will make really lw bullets and drive them really fast in their own handloads. . Everyone else is just in the "ammo dump" category, and they wont spend the extra money for a new gun/load.

gripper

Options. I like having them-whether it's a swap barrel option or something more mundane like running.38's in a .357 or .44 Special in a .44 Magnum..and ,as others stated; getting them out in the wild gets the other folks to consider them...and therein lies your market penetration.

John in AR

Gripper - I didn't mean the above as a knock on the caliber. It's very capable; basically duplicating a full-power .357 magnum load in an almost same-size and same-capacity gun as a 9mm. And I love the .357 magnum, it's one of my most-loaded calibers.

Great capability with the 9x23. I was just speculating on the 'why' of its market status, not on its inherent pro's or con's.

gripper

Oh, I understand.No hassle-the reason I stated what I did was because I would think a.v versatile caliber and platform SHOULD be able to sell itself...

Terry G

I have way too many 9X19 MM's and 9X18MM's to even think about starting an other 9MM. The Horror, the Horror!

gripper

The convertibility as well as the ballistic potential interest me.

noylj

1) The .38 Super already exists
2) It won't fit in a 9x19 size gun any more than the .38 Super will
3) If the guns aren't on the shelves to be purchased, no body will purchase
4) Have you looked at the 9x25 Dillon?

gripper

You are looking at it from the opposite direction that I am: I see it as a larger,high strength platform with reliable convertibility from LONGER higher pressure calibers down to shorter OAL medium pressure calibers with reasonable parts swaps. Effectively,an ability to have several viable choices available for the same frame. Think of it like a .45 Colt Redhawk with the cylinder cut to run .45ACP in moon clips and .45 Auto Rim without clips. Or a .357 revolver,that can run .38 Special(and in some cases others).

Jammer Six

There's no point to it.

ethereal

^This.

Repeat after me, "Shot Placement and System Shutdown."

noylj

Easy--it won't fit in a std 9mm pistol. It works for 1911s and other .45 designed pistols. Without pistol, the cartridge is dead in the water.
It certainly trumps the .38 Super.

Garand

For those of us that live in towns or smaller cities, replacement components such as brass are going to be exceptionally different to find unless you buy it from a major manufacturer and have it mailed to you, as for finding factory ammo its a whole new ball game. Years ago I lived on the west coast in a city of 163,000 at the time and I purchased an old Mauser Bolt Action rifle in 7.63 Argentine. Great rifle, I didn't reload at the time and it took me 8 months to find a single box of 20 rds which I paid through the nose for. It didn't last long in my rifle locker. I still buy firearms in obsolete calibers, but before I buy the gun, I know where the brass, bullets and reloading dies come from.