what's the difference - Arms Locker
Arms Locker Gun Forum
Go Back   Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Reloading


Like Tree3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2016, 07:28 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2016
From: USA

Posts: 1,430
what's the difference

between M4's 70 gr sp at 100 yds and .45 70 Split Nose segmented bullet at 5 yds? Such a 223 hit is well proven to be devastating and the .45 bullet, split lengthwise, made of solid copper, will create TWO wound channels, diverging and each one will be wider than the 223 sp' channel. :-) The .45 bullet segments will yaw as they penetrate, (as they will be "seeking" a stable relationship in the media that is being penetrated. The fragile vital organ tissue that is "caught" between the diverging .45's wound tracks is going to be ruined by the high-velocity temporary gas cavity. Thus, the .45 split nose will have MORE effect than the 223 sp, same weight and same velocity. For the dummies, I'm not making any claims for what the .45 can do at 100 yds. You will miss a man, most of the time, at 20 FEET with a handgun, when you are being shot-at. So it's 20 ft and less that matters. and at such ranges, the .45 split nose offers a quantum leap in terminal effects. (as vs typical jhp's). i get it that you're too lazy to find out for yourselves, but the concept works. It's just a question of shooting the rds at ever increasing velocities, until the projectiles fly apart in flight and for the next ones, set the slitting saw in the mill about .020" less deep for the slit into the bullet. Then shoot some critters with such loads and see that I'm correct.

Last edited by justme; 11-01-2016 at 10:44 AM.
 
Remove Ads
Old 11-01-2016, 08:18 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2015
From: North

Posts: 1,585
Same thing different day
 
Old 11-01-2016, 09:10 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,010
I'd say one relevant difference is that a .451" cylinder of copper weighing 70 grains is a mere 0.19" in length. Less than one-fifth of an inch from front to back of the cylinder.

We could gain some length by hollow-basing and careful forming of the front, but there's just not a lot there to work with. Going to be very limited trying to form that small an amount of material into sharp, pointy things when you're working with something less than one-fifth of an inch long to begin with.
 
 
Old 11-01-2016, 10:55 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2016
From: USA

Posts: 1,430
like I said, feel FREE to post something worth reading yourself, instead of waiting for me to do it all
 
Old 11-01-2016, 04:51 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,010
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying that light, fast bullets aren't very capable. I'm saying "how do you do that?". For visual reference, a 70-grain .45-caliber bullet is darn near the same shape as a hockey puck. A hockey puck's thickness is 38% of its diameter, and 70 grains of copper creates a 45-caliber "puck" whose thickness is 42% of its diameter. Very close to the same in shape.



So how do we reshape a hockey puck's worth of material (while maintaining the same diameter) into something with a nose, much less TWO noses; in a shape that can be seated deep enough into the case to prevent setback or tilting, and protruding OUT of the case enough and with a shape conducive to reliable feeding? Remember, we're starting with a "puck" only 19 one-hundredths of an inch to begin with.

That's my question.
 
Old 11-02-2016, 08:22 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
I'd say one relevant difference is that a .451" cylinder of copper weighing 70 grains is a mere 0.19" in length. Less than one-fifth of an inch from front to back of the cylinder.

We could gain some length by hollow-basing and careful forming of the front, but there's just not a lot there to work with. Going to be very limited trying to form that small an amount of material into sharp, pointy things when you're working with something less than one-fifth of an inch long to begin with.
John, seriously. You've posted multiple times in multiple threads since I first asked this question two days ago. Yet you abandon your own thread (this thread) over a simple, completely civil question involving nothing more complicated than 3rd-grade math.

Only three possibilities here:
A - Is my math wrong?
B - Is it that you have a way to do it that I just haven't thought of? (That's always a possibility) or:
C - Is it that you just made this 70-grain, 45-caliber, split-point bullet up in your head, completely out of thin air..?

One (or more) of those three things must be true. I don't claim to know which one it is. But to ignore the simple question (a simple question about YOUR design and YOUR claims, that are the specific topic of YOUR thread) makes it simply appear that you don't have an answer.

Once again, we're back to the simple reality that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".

Extraordinary claims without proof, must logically be considered as fiction until such time as proof is provided. So help move your claims into the realm of non-fiction, and show us how this bullet of yours is shaped. You say we should make some. I can't figure out how. Help me do so.
 
Old 02-01-2018, 07:25 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,010
And......... bump.

Asked this same question, repeatedly, since 2016; and have yet to receive an informative response.

Last edited by John in AR; 02-01-2018 at 08:04 AM.
 
Old 02-02-2018, 03:14 PM   #8
Registered User
 Garand's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
From: Canadian Badlands

Posts: 8,761
I'm pretty positive that if I shoot someone with a 405 grain .45-70 bullet, he/she will be down for the count. No need for this split nose ****. Melvin, have you ever shot a .45-70 with various loads?
 
Old 02-02-2018, 03:35 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2015
From: North

Posts: 1,585
Do they make it in 10 inch with a 22 conversion an a screenwire can?
 
Old 02-03-2018, 09:27 AM   #10
Registered User
 Terry G's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004

Posts: 4,898
No, but I made one back in the '70's. It worked on Chipmunks, but a miniature Poodle took five shot's and it still attacked me. I had to finish it with my 12 Gauge pocket gun.
 
Old 02-03-2018, 11:12 AM   #11
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2015
From: North

Posts: 1,585
Those little poodles are tough an mean!
 
Old 02-26-2018, 08:35 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garand View Post
I'm pretty positive that if I shoot someone with a 405 grain .45-70 bullet, he/she will be down for the count. No need for this split nose ****. Melvin, have you ever shot a .45-70 with various loads?
yeah? well let's see you carry that 45-70 in your pants pocket, dip****.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 08:41 PM   #13
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 595
I've told you at least a dozen times, dip****. all you have to do is turn a piece of copper rod in a drill, to 155 gr lee swc shape and size, then cut as big a hp into it that will still feed, and cut a much bigger hollowbase and cut a big grease groove in the side of the bullet. If it is so worrisome to you, just make it out of aluminum. You're too lazy to do that, too, of course.
 
Old 02-27-2018, 05:35 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
I've told you at least a dozen times, dip****. all you have to do is turn a piece of copper rod in a drill, to 155 gr lee swc shape and size, then cut as big a hp into it that will still feed, and cut a much bigger hollowbase and cut a big grease groove in the side of the bullet. If it is so worrisome to you, just make it out of aluminum. You're too lazy to do that, too, of course.
And rather than simply telling anything, I've shown that there simply isn't enough material to do so:

Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying that light, fast bullets aren't very capable. I'm saying "how do you do that?". For visual reference, a 70-grain .45-caliber bullet is darn near the same shape as a hockey puck. A hockey puck's thickness is 38% of its diameter, and 70 grains of copper creates a 45-caliber "puck" whose thickness is 42% of its diameter. Very close to the same in shape.



So how do we reshape a hockey puck's worth of material (while maintaining the same diameter) into something with a nose, much less TWO noses; in a shape that can be seated deep enough into the case to prevent setback or tilting, and protruding OUT of the case enough and with a shape conducive to reliable feeding? Remember, we're starting with a "puck" only 19 one-hundredths of an inch to begin with.

That's my question.
You've claimed that each of the two points of the split-nose bullet are longer than the bullet is in diameter. For that matter, you've never called it a hollowpoint; you always call it "my split nose design". Simply put, as long as the rules of physics apply (which they do on my planet), there simply isn't enough material there to make a hollow-point, hollow-based, split-nose bullet profile.

Now that it's been easily and simply shown that there just isn't enough material if you use that weight of copper, you say to "just make it out of aluminum" instead. But you have said - for more than a decade - that you make these out of copper, and you have said that you make them out of tin. Now it needs to be aluminum...?

And don't start with the stupidity of calling other people lazy. Remember that you've been on government assistance for a long, long time. It's us (who you call lazy) that actually buy your welfare groceries and government drugs for you.

My wife and I - primarily through personal effort, and a smaller percentage of hired labor - have turned 40 acres of scrub into something recently valued at $400k. In the last nine years, we've turned a $445k company into something just valued yesterday at a net (after building mortgage debt) of $1.02 million. Yeah, I'm lazy.

If you'd let go of the hate, the bitterness, and the mind-altering drugs, you could still create a positive happy life, rather than this constant pissed-off screeching you wallow in. At your age, it's late; but it's not too late. And it's definitely worth considering. A happy, pleasant life is kind of cool actually.
 
Old 02-27-2018, 06:29 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,010
From another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
...the Split Nose 45 Super, from a Commander barrel, has 70 grs at 2200 fps. Each of the 2 segments has 370 ft lbs. The splitnose has the advantage of penetrating clothing, skin and wishbone as one bullet, then it breaks into 2 full length segments. It also has the advantage of the 2 overlapping (for most of their travel in the body) temporary cavities, ensuring the destruction of any lung, spleen, liver or kidney tissues "caught" between the 2 diverging wound tracks. the extra velocity of the solid copper Split Nose bullet assures adequate penetration of the yawing .45 segments, meaning more tissue is destroyed by each of the segments than would be the case with a .22 mag hp from the rifle.
Here again we have .45-caliber, 70 grains, split-nose solid copper. From a same-diameter hockey puck's worth of material.

Come on, John - you keep calling me lazy and a liar. Show us how someone smart and ambitions like yourself manages to defeat the laws of physics that the rest of us mere mortals have to abide by...
 
Old 02-27-2018, 08:07 AM   #16
Registered User
 Garand's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
From: Canadian Badlands

Posts: 8,761
Melvin, I spend far too much time actually shooting than you do, obviously. If I had access to a machine shop, I still wouldn't have enough time to machine your "wonder bullets" in the quantity that I need. Melvin, time to come up for a reality check! If you need to carry a firearm that badly, if you think that so many people hate you that much, it might not be about society, it just might be you. Are you still on your meds?
 
Old 03-06-2018, 06:34 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 595
wtf makes you think that you'll need more than 30? testfire 15, keep 15. if they have the same feed profile as something common, use that. you've never once fired a shot in anger so wtf would you need lots of defensive ammo? I can produce 30 such rds in a day, no problem. With just an electric drill, dremel, vise, file, caliper. $60 worth of stuff, found in any pawn shop.
 
Old 03-06-2018, 08:12 AM   #18
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,010
John - This is your topic, that you started more than fifteen months ago. Five of the 17 posts so far in this thread so far are by you. Five of the 17 are by me, simply asking how these are shaped.

I've been asking this same question, in this same thread, since 2016. A simple and basic question about your design, in a thread that you started about your design, and you still haven't given any specific answer to my simple, basic question about your design. The one 'answer' you have given is to now make it a hollow-based hollowpoint, not a split-nose as you have for years stated.

You say that to make your design, we start with the shape of a Lee 155-grain SWC. This is a .45-caliber Lee 155-grain SWC:


Again, the question. How do you take this amount of material:


and while keeping the outside diameter the same, turn it into the shape of that Lee bullet whose profile you say to emulate? You say to hollow the base and hollow the point; when you used to say split the point, not hollow it. And if we split the point as you have repeatedly described - having each separate point being longer than the bullet's diameter - laws of physics mandate that we can't also hollow out the base much at all.

So no, you haven't told me a dozen times. You've never given an objective, measurable response.
 
Old 03-25-2018, 01:13 PM   #19
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2015

Posts: 1
I wonder what kind of squirrel bait they are using around here.
Garand likes this.
 
Old 03-25-2018, 04:48 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 595
your "laws" are fos, as usual. I've always said that you hollowpoint AND hollowbase it, until there's just a thin partition between the 2 caviies,and you ALSO slit it, from the nose almost to the partition. You determine the thickness of the partition by experimentation. if the mud shows that the gases blew a hole thru the partition, leave the next one thicker. Same way with determining how deep the slit is. If the segments come off in flight, you slit it too deep. Once that hp peels open, the segments break apart, lengthwise. Keep trying John. You'll find a little crack somewhere, someday, altho you've never managed it in 10+ years of looking for one.
 
Reply

  Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Reloading


Thread Tools
Display Modes






Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2003 - 2011 Arms Locker. All rights reserved.