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Old 03-25-2018, 08:17 PM   #21
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 Terry G's Avatar
 
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John can speak for himself, but my question is simple. Why the HELL would you go threw all this trouble when you can go to the store an simply BUY a Golden Sabre .45 +P and shoot it??? Do you really think the bad guy is going to notice you went through all this trouble?
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:37 AM   #22
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From: Central Arkansas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
your "laws" are fos, as usual.
They're not 'my' laws. They're God's and nature's laws of physics, to which all things on planet earth are subject. Sorry if you find them inconvenient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
I've always said that you hollowpoint AND hollowbase it,
No. You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
What I DO claim is that a 70 gr split nose, at 2200 fps, 750 ft lbs, from a .45 Commander is many times more likely to suffice than a 230 gr non plus p jhp from the same gun. 95% stops is 5 failures in 100 chest hit men.(by one shot). 75% stopper (which is all that 230 gr load IS, since it doesn't expand and only has 300 ft lbs) is 25 failures in 100 such shootings. 5 is 5x better in such a situation, but it's still a 1 in 20 chance of a failure to stop. If you're unwilling to pay $200 for 100 rds that are 5x as likely to suffice, well, it's your sorry, cheapskate arse that's at stake.

The Split Nose offers TWO wound channels, not one, so you're twice as likely to hit something vital. Those wound channels are WIDER than a .45 hole, cause they are the full length of the bullet, turned sideways for part of their journey thru the target. They are made of copper, harder than lead, so they dont "erode" from friction or fragment like lead does and their corners are "sharp". The Mach II impact speeds mean that the temporary gas cavities really ARE capable of destroying fragile vital organ tissue that was not actually touched by the bullet segments. This is especially true of the area between the diverging wound channels.

So you're hitting with twice as much shock and tissue destruction, while having less recoil. What's not to like? If you "think" that the penetration is inadequate, just hold 8" of animal in front of your chest, while my wife fires a Split Nose .45 into her side of the critter. You'll be perfectly safe, according to your bs theories about "lack of penetration". It takes a lot of energy for a bullet segment to exit one skin and pierce another, and according to YOU, a "mere" 2" of penetration wont bother you at ALL. :-)
Copper, not aluminum as you now say. No mention of hollow point, just a split point that separates into two individual pieces; each longer than the bullet is in diameter. So, no; another lie. (Well, perhaps just another delusion.) But either way, you have NOT always said to "hollowpoint AND hollowbase" it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
until there's just a thin partition between the 2 caviies,and you ALSO slit it, from the nose almost to the partition. You determine the thickness of the partition by experimentation.
This is a THV 'Arcane' load, a spectacularly-failed 45-grain 9mm commercial attempt at making something close to what you describe:

Still with us? That's a 45 grain 9mm bullet. You maintain that there IS enough material in that bullet to make it a hollowpoint the same profile as the lswc you earlier said to start with?


Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
...Keep trying John. You'll find a little crack somewhere, someday, altho you've never managed it in 10+ years of looking for one.
No need to go looking for a little crack, or a lot of crack. You yourself have made a point of admitting your dependence on other drugs, haven't you; MULTIPLE other drugs? That's a simple question - either you have or you haven't. And you have. Show me wrong if you can. (Hint; you can't.)
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Last edited by John in AR; 03-27-2018 at 12:27 PM.
 
Old 03-26-2018, 06:32 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry G View Post
John can speak for himself, but my question is simple. Why the HELL would you go threw all this trouble when you can go to the store an simply BUY a Golden Sabre .45 +P and shoot it??? Do you really think the bad guy is going to notice you went through all this trouble?
But Mel can not just go to the store an buy. Not sure about other States, in IL you must show a FOID card to buy. Even online have to send them a copy also copy of DL.
 
 
Old 03-26-2018, 08:37 AM   #24
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From: Central Arkansas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassMan View Post
...in IL you must show a FOID card to buy. Even online have to send them a copy also copy of DL.
Bummer. Here, you just have to be of legal age - 18 for longarm ammo and 21 for handgun.

Honestly, I think the only ammo I've bought over the counter in months is 22LR. Funny part is that they ask 'is this for a rifle or a handgun?' as though it makes a difference when they're talking to a mostly-grey-bearded old fart...
 
Old 03-27-2018, 06:28 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
Bummer. Here, you just have to be of legal age - 18 for longarm ammo and 21 for handgun.

Honestly, I think the only ammo I've bought over the counter in months is 22LR. Funny part is that they ask 'is this for a rifle or a handgun?' as though it makes a difference when they're talking to a mostly-grey-bearded old fart...
ROFLMAO!
 
Old 03-27-2018, 08:33 AM   #26
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Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
They're not 'my' laws. They're God's and nature's laws of physics, to which all things on planet earth are subject. Sorry if you find them inconvenient.


No. You said:

Copper, not aluminum as you now say. No mention of hollow point, just a split point that separates into two individual pieces; each longer than the bullet is in diameter. So, no; another lie. (Well, perhaps just another delusion.) But either way, you have NOT always said to "hollowpoint AND hollowbase" it.




This is a THV 'Arcane' load, a spectacularly-failed 45-grain 9mm commercial attempt at making something close to what you describe:

Still with us? That's a 45 grain 9mm bullet. You maintain that there IS enough material in that bullet to make it a hollowpoint the same profile as the lswc you earlier said to start with?



No need to go looking for a little crack, or a lot of crack. You yourself have made a point of admitting your dependence on other drugs, haven't you; MULTIPLE other drugs? That's a simple question - either you have or you haven't. And you have. Show me wrong if you can. (Hint; you can't.)

And again, no response; until a week or a month from now when we'll once again be favored with the standard "I already told you, punk" blather.
 
Old 03-27-2018, 09:23 AM   #27
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From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,129
Another pic of the Arcane, same amount of material as the never-seen-split-nose-hollowpoint-hollowbased-used-to-be-a-lswc-shape-vaporware bullet:


Still not seeing how to keep the diameter unchanged, and give it TWO points, each of which are longer than the bullet is round...


All that said, in looking up more info on this load, naturally I find more internet pollution by JMD. Usually I don't re-post stuff from other places, especially things that would embarrass someone, but I'm a little tired of being called a punk, liar, and lame, so here are a couple of my favorites. Our self-named "gun guru", who espouses hot-rodding self-defense reloads to unusual velocities, evidently doesn't know the freshman-level stuff of chamber pressures.


From the USACarry forum:
Quote:
Familiar with THV Arcane ammo?

their 9mm load(from France, no concerns about SAAMI pressures or lawsuits) was 45 grs at 2400 fps, in a 5" barrel. their .45 was 60 grs at 2200 fps. google for RBCD ammo and check out their 9x23 Win load. regular old 1911, and its 60 grs at 2600fps. DON'T THINK that I advocate their silly fragmenting bullet, ok? Just notice the bullet weight and the velocity achieved, all right? That load has the same momentum recoil as a 220 gr bullet at 600 fps or a 110 gr bullet at 1200 fps, but the 60/2600 fps load has 900 ft-lbs of energy, the same as an m4 223 has. Pretty amazing, in a belt gun, yes? that bullet COULD be a hollowbases, solid copper hp, you know. It doesn;t have to be a fragmented style bullet to get that velocity.

see, the SAAMI max pressure for the 356TSW, .40 short and weak, 357 Sig and 9x23 Winchester are all 40,000 CUP, while the plus P 9mm is limited to 33,000 CUP. 21% higher safe pressure translates into considerably more velocity potential, if you use the right powder with the bullet.

From the hipoint forum:
Quote:
45 gr 9mm, 5" barrel, 2400 fps. used to be sold here. Google for THV-Arcane ammo. The plus P 9mm is limited to 32,000 CUP, but the 357 Sig, 9x21 Win, 356 TSW can all be safely loaded to 40,000 CUP, cause their brass cases are thicker and tougher than 9x19 luger brass.

So when somebody tells you that "riflelike velocities are not possible in service pistols", they are mistaken or lying, plain and simple. The problem, as most see it, anyway, is that such ammo pierces soft, concealable body armor, making it illegal for civilians to possess. That is not the same thing as saying that it can't be made or that it doesn't work (superbly, in fact)

From the XD Talk forum:
Quote:
any 9mm can be rechambered to 356 TSW. that stands for "team Smith and wesson". It's a stronger, thicker, .100" longer, straightwalled case, still offered by Starline Brass, thru Graf and Sons, in Mexico Mo. For the reloader using 90 gr or lighter bullets, some astounding things, velocity wise can be done with the 356 case. Longer bullets just take up powder space in the cartridge case. Rechambering costs about $50, so does a spare barrel, in many cases. The 356 was rated at 40,000 CUP, as vs 33,000 CUP for 9mm Plus P. This diff lets you safely get a 4" 9mm delivering nearly 1700 fps with the 90 gr jhp, for 550 ft lbs of power. However, this is also assuming that you have a fully supported barrel. do NOT try this sort of thing with the poorly supported Beretta M92, or the Taurus copy of same!
Awesome. Depending on what day, what forum, and what username, we get to pick from multiple chamber-pressure limits. Good to know we can do that at will. Of course, NEITHER of those numbers are correct.

JMD/Gunkid, the very simple reason that both of your posted 9mm Plus-P chamber pressure CUP numbers is incorrect is something that every noob reloader should know; or at least be smart enough to look up before using or posting for the consumption of others.

Ready..? Simply put, there IS no CUP saami spec for 9mm +P. There are CUP ranges for some calibers - "ranges", not singular numbers since there are three aspects to a CUP rating - but for 9mm +P there IS NO listed CUP rating of any kind. They specifically list it as "Not Established". (FWIW, that's also the case with .356TSW. And for that matter, SAAMI doesn't even list the 9x21 round, but it's max PSI rating is actually LOWER than even STANDARD-PRESSURE 9mm; ie, lower than 9mm plus-P, not higher. Oops...)

And you still claim some irrational infallibility even with constant, repeated, PUBLIC errors. Weird.

{edited to make it feel a little bit less like I'm beating up on one of Jerry's Kids...}

Last edited by John in AR; 03-27-2018 at 12:55 PM.
 
Old 03-27-2018, 01:05 PM   #28
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Joined: Jun 2015
From: North

Posts: 1,600
You mean to tell me that there are still places that let Melvin the ****ing know it all on their forums! Must be bottom of the barrel places. Hope people there do not listen to his bull**** an try to use his nonsense.

Last edited by BigBassMan; 03-27-2018 at 01:11 PM.
 
Old 03-27-2018, 02:53 PM   #29
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Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,129
Quote:
...RBCD ammo and check out their 9x23 Win load. regular old 1911, and its 60 grs at 2600fps. DON'T THINK that I advocate their silly fragmenting bullet, ok? Just notice the bullet weight and the velocity achieved, all right? That load has the same momentum recoil as a 220 gr bullet at 600 fps or a 110 gr bullet at 1200 fps, but the 60/2600 fps load has 900 ft-lbs of energy, the same as an m4 223 has.


Pretty amazing, in a belt gun, yes? that bullet COULD be a hollowbases, solid copper hp, you know. It doesn;t have to be a fragmented style bullet to get that velocity.
Didn't even notice (in the wealth of other wrongness in these posts), but even simple momentum calculations are evidently too advanced for some.

60 x 2600 = 156,000
220 x 600 (and 110 x 1200 as well) = 132,000

On the "900 ft/lbs of energy, the same as an M4 223 has", more tripe again. A 14.5" M4 will run 1100 ft/lbs or more with M855 or M193 either one. Not 900 ft/lbs.
 
Old 03-28-2018, 04:25 AM   #30
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Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,129
And as I've said many times in the past, John - if you'll man up and respond civilly, I'm completely happy to let it go. Simply be civil and I'll stop publicly reminding you of your publicly-made errors.
 
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