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Old 03-30-2008, 12:56 PM   #1
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9mm lead load revisited

I just deleaded my 9mm Browning High Power barrel for the second time -- thank you Outers Foul-Out III. First time took 8.5 hours, second time only 2.5 hours -- I'll go to great lengths NOT to do that again.
In my search for an inexpensive 9mm practice load, I learned some published reloading data is woefully different from what I experienced. Examples: (1) manual says 5.5gr Unique pushes a 125gr 9mm lead RN at mv=1139fps. My experience is 5.0 (about 10% less) Unique pushs one at mv=1195; when I retested with the bullet as far out (+ .040") as functioning would allow mv=1144. (2) manual says 3.8gr Unique pushes a 145gr 9mm lead RN at mv=1108. My experience is 3.5gr Unique pushes a 147gr lead truncated cone bullet at mv=912 and half those bullets keyholed at 25 years.
So I'd be interested in hearing about somebody's positive experiences with lead bullets in 9mm. Also, anybody play with lead bullets in a 40 S&W?
 
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Old 05-19-2008, 05:23 PM   #2
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Use Gaschecks on those bullets!!!Or copper plated bullets.
 
Old 05-19-2008, 05:49 PM   #3
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i've used lead bullets in 9mm pistols for well over 30 yrs, never had a problem one. the people i do know that have had leading problems, come from the bullet not the load. when velocities get much above 800 fps with swaged pure lead bullets you start running into leading problems. if your shooting speer, or hornaday lead bullets, your shooting pure lead bullets and velocity is not your friend. when shooting lead bullets it would server you better to buy hard cast lead bullets as they can take the velocity better, before leading the barrel. all lead bullets will lead the barrel to some extent at 1000 fps or better, no matter how hard they are. it will depend on how hard the bullet is as to how much they will lead the bore. there are several makers that make lead bullets that can take the velocity you mention without much issue. as for your velocity's if you are using data for jacketed bullets you will find that the velocities are higher than stated due to the fact that lead bullets are slicker than jacketed ones. it doesn't take as much powder to get the velocity stated when using lead verses jacketed. it would be best to use lead bullet data in the first place. as for cartridge length the 9mm can be a problem to deal with. the 9mm case being as small as it is, is a real problem when the bullet is not seated to factory specs. if they are loaded long, chamber pressure is reduced and you mite have functional problem with the gun. if they are loaded short and it doesn't take much you can have some pretty sever chamber pressure issues. so always load 40 s&w, 9mm, .380, 32 auto to manual, or factory specs and never shorter.
 
 
Old 05-19-2008, 06:00 PM   #4
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NH,

I'm not sure if you were talking about lead only with your last statement, but 9x19 can be loaded way past manuals with FMJ. I've seen some Winchester 124gr proof loads shot that clocked 1700 out of a 4" Sig without even blowing primers (one of the reasons I bought a Sig). I'm fond of my 1275fps load myself, and my manual says 1150 is tops. NATO loadings fall in between 1250 and 1300.
 
Old 05-19-2008, 10:23 PM   #5
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If your bullets do not fill the bore it dont matter fast you push them or how hard they are gasses will blow by and they will key hole in the target.Propper fit bullets(slug your bore)should work with little or no leading,lube them with Lee liquid alox.Make sure your bullets are sized to fit your bore.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 06:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post
NH,

I'm not sure if you were talking about lead only with your last statement, but 9x19 can be loaded way past manuals with FMJ. I've seen some Winchester 124gr proof loads shot that clocked 1700 out of a 4" Sig without even blowing primers (one of the reasons I bought a Sig). I'm fond of my 1275fps load myself, and my manual says 1150 is tops. NATO loadings fall in between 1250 and 1300.
ok i'll bite. now i'm not trying to be a smart ass, but what part of a load being a proof load is not understood here. a proof load is as it says, its used only to over pressure a barrel to prove it has enough strength to handle multiple standard loads. if any one is using proof class loads as standard ammo, you won't have to remind me not to shoot with them. they are dangerous at best, but most likely just plan stupid. it doesn't matter if it is blowing primers or not it is way over pressuring the barrel and over stressing the other components.


now for the other statement that need addressing:


If your bullets do not fill the bore it dont matter fast you push them or how hard they are gasses will blow by and they will key hole in the target.Propper fit bullets(slug your bore)should work with little or no leading,lube them with Lee liquid alox.Make sure your bullets are sized to fit your bore.

how right you are. but if your sizing the bullets to small in the first place for a 9mm bore then they need to go back in the furnace and you need to try it again. bullets for a 9 mm handgun bore that is .355 should be .357 to .358. you didn't mention that you were sizing them too small for the bore diameter you were shooting. or if you are buying them too small, go and get some that are sized correctly.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 09:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neolithic hunter View Post
ok i'll bite. now i'm not trying to be a smart ass, but what part of a load being a proof load is not understood here. a proof load is as it says, its used only to over pressure a barrel to prove it has enough strength to handle multiple standard loads. if any one is using proof class loads as standard ammo, you won't have to remind me not to shoot with them. they are dangerous at best, but most likely just plan stupid. it doesn't matter if it is blowing primers or not it is way over pressuring the barrel and over stressing the other components.
Nothing smart ass at all about that. The idea I was trying to convey is that CIP and NATO know that 1300 is within safe for the 9x19, and it basically takes an extra-crispy .357 Mag in a smaller body to proof a pistol. Many sources would lead you to believe that the SAAMI 35000 PSI for 9x19 is the topmost end of the rounds spectrum, it's simply not.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 01:38 PM   #8
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well dw it may not be the top end, but its the practical top end. i have a 98 mauser that was proofed at 175,000 psi. the rifle is still intact and used for hunting every now and again. but its an 06 and 50 to 60,000 psi is its working top end. just because it survived the super high pressure test load doesn't mean really very much. it only means that it didn't come unglued that time, is all. high pressure loads are for testing only, the smart man will stick with the published data and pressures. one thing to remember, is that some cases of commie block 7.62x25 ammo made it to the states with spoiler rounds in the boxes of ammo. i don't really want to be around when one of those goes bang, and or boom.
 
Old 05-20-2008, 01:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neolithic hunter View Post
well dw it may not be the top end but its the practical top end.
And when has NATO's and CIPs 37,700 failed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neolithic hunter View Post
i have a 98 mauser that was proofed at 175,000 psi. the rifle is still intact and used for hunting every now and again. but its an 06 and 50 to 60,000 psi is its working top end.
I don't see any discrepancies with SAAMI's recognition of 60,000 PSI as the functional top-end of the 30-06.
 
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