Does anyone know whether the US military used nickel coated projectiles in M-2 ball ammunition ( 30-06 ) ?
I have an M-1 Garand that has extreme bore fowling and the traditional copper remover doesn't even touch the stuff. Hundreds of strokes with a bronze bore brush barely scratches the material either.
The fowling that does come out turns a patch blue ( not the usual green of copper ).
Any ideas ?
I am neither an expert nor a chemist but I did run a search and found this statement:
[b]"and found the bore that had been cleaned with Hoppes No. 9 came out with blue stained patches"[/b]
So it would appear that you have copper fouling. Maybe you should try this stuff. Haven't tried it myself but if it works, it works.
I used to use MC-7 solvent, now I use Montana X-treme 50 BMG solvent; both have always given me blue fouling from copper on my patches.
I reccomend giving Montana X-treme 50 BMG a try. I use my weapons pretty hard, in some cases going over a thousand rounds without cleaning and exposed to all sorts of grime, and this Montana X-treme shot gets bores back to shiny mirror clean in around 3 saturated patches and some brush scrubbing every time. My only complaint with the stuff is that being around the fumes even outside kills some brain cells.
This is a new one for me! Could the silver stuff be some other metal or alloy
of metals? Where did you get this ammo; is it still available?
As for Nickel, I used Nitric Acid to remove the corroded Nickel finish on my
S&W 669 pistol. The parent metal was unharmed, but GREAT CAUTION must
be taken when using any acid. Proper eye, hand, clothing & face protection
MUST be used. Stay close to a ample source of clean water.
I got a small bottle (4 oz.) from a local lab-chemical supply. It was a few
dollars 10 years ago; so I don't remember the strength of the acid.
I wet the slide with distlled water then put it in a thick poly zip-loc. Using a
chemist's pippette (a long glass tube that has a tapered spout and a flared
opening at the other end. The thumb is pressed on this end to keep the fluid
in the tube until ready to deliver), I opened the bag just enough to put the
pippette just above the slide andslowly added the acid. Voila, the Nickel
went into a blue-green solution. No telling how what effect the acid would
have on a rifle barrel. The slide was left with a permanent medium dark gray
finish, almost like Parkerizing.
Don't try this on my say-so. Discuss it with a chemist or gunsmith or both!
Also, I don't have a clue how the accuracy will be affected.
Go here. [url]http://www.snipercountry.com/roster/display_normal.asp[/url]
These guys know their stuff, and THEY appear to be confused.
over the years i have used a lots of hopes #9. it has mostly had a green reaction to copper fouling, though i have had it come out blue tinted at times. i think that hopes uses more than one formula when mixing there product. it generally works pretty good unless the fouling is really bad. in those cases i either use sweets or a foulout II. the sweets works pretty good, if you leave it on a bronze brush without cleaning it, it will eat the brush up overnight. when i use the foulout it gets all of the copper out. but it still leaves the powder fouling to contend with. :cool:
[QUOTE=spurrit]Go here. [url]http://www.snipercountry.com/roster/display_normal.asp[/url]
These guys know their stuff, and THEY appear to be confused.[/QUOTE]
We're not confused on SniperCountry... we're just normally that way ;)
I'm just taking a hard look at the BS around cleaning.
Bert... no one would plate bullets with nickel - it is very hard and would wreck the barrel in quick time. Bullets have been washed with tin, but it is harmless.
The color you are seeing is copper... when it is light, it appears green~ish, but when it is heavy, it appears a dark hunter green, to blue.
One of the things I have discovered in this "quest", is that brushes will definitely lay a layer of copper down on the bore at each pass. So, obviously, if you are going to brush the bore, do it once, in the beginning, and then don't do it any more, or you will be chasing your own copper, and never get finished.
Another thing that is very helpful for filthy barrels, is the chamber plugs sold by Midway and Sinclair's Int. Put it in the chamber, stand the riffle on the butt, and fill the bore with #9, or your favorite poison (as long as it not the kind that damages the bore).
24 hours of this soak will get rid of anything a bullet will leave behind. From that point, don't let the barrel get so feeeeelthy.
Brass brushes are needed for leading like pistols with case bullets, and old time riffles, like 45-120's etc. But for modern bullets, I'm inclined to say that a nylon brush, and #9 or the equivelant will take the powder/primer fouling out pretty quick, and the rest is copper.
Come by and see us some time.
So many cats, so little ammo ;)
Thought you'd be able to add somethin, 'Lito. How's the project comin'?
[QUOTE=spurrit]Thought you'd be able to add somethin, 'Lito. How's the project comin'?[/QUOTE]
Well... it's coming along. The biggest obstacle is all the BS that gets in your head from when you were a kid, and the BS from the advertisers to sell products. It's hard to let go of old myths about what you "gotta" do.
When I get finished with it, I'll summarize it all, and it'll probably get in the articles section.
CatShooter, from SniperCountry.
So many cats, so little ammo ;) ;)
Don't forget the current BS. Apparently we MUST use rod guides, and here, a few years ago, we needed moly on everything.........until it rusted some bores, then everyone that had been pimpin' it disavowed knowledge of it's existance.
[QUOTE=spurrit]Don't forget the current BS. Apparently we MUST use rod guides, and here, a few years ago, we needed moly on everything.........until it rusted some bores, then everyone that had been pimpin' it disavowed knowledge of it's existance.[/QUOTE]
The benchrest community is THE source of so much Bull**** in the shooting world.
You will hear that you must use coated rods to protect the bore from brass in the rods... then you will hear that the coating has "abrasives" in them that scratch the bore, so you must use brass rods... then you hear that you can't patch the bore first, because of all the "abrasive" powder residue... the same residue that has been pushed down the bore under 55,000 psi at 3,500+ fps, while being squished into the steel by a bullet that is 5 thousandths of an inch LARGER than the bore diameter... and now you can't push it out with a wet cotton patch, cuz it'll ruin the barrel... gimme a friggin' break from these idjits.
Sorting out the wheat from the chaff is a real chore sometimes.
CatShooter, from SniperCountry.
So many cats, so little ammo ;) ;)
Try some Wipeout. Spray it in, let it set, patch out the copper.
i don't know about nickled bullets, but i was looking through some of my old stock cause i thought i had some silver shinny old rounds. well i found them i have 2 boxes of 9mm luger thats on 96 mauser stripper clips that are not nickel but i think they are tin coated as some of them have green corision on them. i'll try and get some pic's to post. :cool:
I have some Sellier & Bellot 9mm around here somewhere that looks like the projectiles are nickle. Shiny hard silver colored. Maybe soft steel?? I've got about 1200 rounds of the stuff I got from a friend a while back. Don't think I have ever shot any of it...
hmmmm? I'd like some silver bullets to hunt werwolfs with.
I've seen what appears to be nickel on foreign 9mm , .30 Luger and 7.65, I'm sure it isn't pure nickel or the cost would be out of sight.
If I had a Garand with copper fouling I'd think about electronic cleaning. The surplus rifle folks like [url]www.surplusrifle.com[/url] have some good articles on it. You can even make your own if cost is the problem. It's a simple task of plugging the chamber, inserting a steel rod insulated from the barrel, filling the bore with ammonia, place a dc charge(battery) + on the barrel (-) on the rod. You wind up electroplating the rod with the copper in the bore.
Read up on it before you try it as my memory went second and I can't remember what went first.
Afterwards keep the darn thing clean and you won't have to do it anymore.
For 8 weeks less Sat. & Sun. I fired the M1 with service ammo a minimum of 100 rds./day and never had any problems, but the rifle was cleaned after every session.
the problem with the foul out systems when trying to use them in a gas operated gun is the gas port. you can't plug it on most of them, on top of that i would be kind if contrite if i found out the the system de-plated my chrome lined barrel. there are a number of reasons not to use the foul out systems on military rifle a chromed bore is just one.
Cartridge Cal .30
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