Bronze Cast Bullets - Arms Locker
Arms Locker Gun Forum
Go Back   Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Reloading


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-27-2007, 07:15 PM   #1
 
Joined: May 2007

Posts: 16
Bronze Cast Bullets

Men, Ladies:

I seek information from, anyone or source, related to bronze or brass alloys
suitable for casting bullets in the home.

Done much surfin' the net, purchased books from Amazone and contacted
various manufacturers, metallugists and yahoos (not the search engine).

All this effort has netted me ZERO. Much info, to be sure, but no definitive
info on the exact topic. I've already spent enough on research and I don't
want to buy S___loads of metal only to find my moulds ruined.

Any help or advice welcome.

Paul
 
Remove Ads
Old 05-27-2007, 07:46 PM   #2
Site Founder
 Rich Z's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
From: Probably washing the vette....

Posts: 4,814
Well, I've seen brass projectiles (Barnes), but they were machined and not cast. Never heard of anyone doing it this way. What is the melting temp of brass? That might be the issue.....
 
Old 05-27-2007, 08:27 PM   #3
Registered User
 neolithic hunter's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
From: on the back porch

Posts: 1,621
been in the casting business before. the only real issue i would see to casting brass, or bronze bullets is the problem you would have with molds. you can't use aluminum as they would melt a the high casting temps of brass an bronze. if you used steel molds the brass or bronze would weld to the mold leaveing you with a single peice. brass and bronze will weld to most ferious metal if they are clean, and the high temps required to melt brass or bronze would melt all none ferious molds. i guess you could make molds out of carbon.carbon but i would think cost would get in the way.
 
 
Old 05-28-2007, 11:07 AM   #4
Registered User
 BigEd63's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
From: Arkansas

Posts: 4,130
Probably why bullet mfg'ers turn them rather than cast them.
 
Old 05-28-2007, 06:04 PM   #5
 
Joined: May 2007

Posts: 16
Bronze Cast Bullets

The welding aspect of iron based die moulds had not occurred to me. As for
other-than-lead cast bullets, Taurus is selling pistol ammo on their US web
site that claims the bullet are 100% Copper and cast. Not the home casters
they, but it would be interesting to know the technique (probably done in a
vacuum environment). Anyhow, the books I've read do speak of die moulds
(like the ones available from RCBS, Lee, Lyman, SAECO, et al) but I haven't
been able to discover what type metal will resist the welding drawback. Also,
the books I have don't speak of any mould release agent. They do give various
bronzes which are ideal in casting small parts.

Heat up the thinking caps, guys. I'm anxious to give this a whirl, but not at
the expense of my moulds!

Paul
 
Old 05-29-2007, 08:41 AM   #6
Registered User
 neolithic hunter's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
From: on the back porch

Posts: 1,621
well if they are casting any of the hot none ferious metals, i would be willing to bet its either sand casting, lost wax, centrifical lost wax, or lost wax investment casting. in any case the molds in all of these cases are terminal molds not permanent molds. with copper, brass, and bronze, they are all the same basic material (ie: brass and bronze are copper alloys) i would think there not casting them as you would lead. being that lead is a molecularly disimiler none ferious metal as compared to steel, you use a mold reliese that is ph alkiline, if you used a mold release that is ph ascid it would allow the lead to bond to your molds. aluminum is in the same boat as lead in this respect. with the exception that lead when used with a alkiline mold release agent or no release agent at all lead will generally not want to bond to the mold. aluminum is naturally alkiline to some degree so lead dosen't want to bond to it. hope i was some help or not.
 
Old 05-29-2007, 06:08 PM   #7
 
Joined: May 2007

Posts: 16
Bronze Cast Bullets

THIS IS A LATE POST. Originally I thought I posted this on the Forum, but it
ended up as a PM. Sorry (bonk on head).

The melting point depends on the alloying metal. Copper is high (approx. 900 F)
and is difficult to keep fluid and pure. Adding Tin, Silicon, Iron, Manganese,
Lead, Zinc (the zoo goes on) reduces that melting point by 1/2. But it's the
abrasive quality I'm worried about. I want the strength but certainly not to
wear down the rifling in the barrel. I can't get any industrialists to answer my
questions.........guess they think I've got some nefarious deed in mind. Let me
assure you, armor piercing is the furthest thing from my mind. I do want to
experiment with conical shaped bullets in the 170 - 200 grain weight for the 45
ACP.

Paul
 
Old 05-30-2007, 10:48 PM   #8
Registered User
 .45 COLT's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
From: *****

Posts: 397
The melting point of Copper is 1,984.32 Degrees F. Depending on the alloy, the melting point of Bronze is somewhat lower, but is still around 1,700+ Degrees F. Pretty high for the home caster to work with.

DC
 
Old 05-31-2007, 12:00 AM   #9
Site Founder
 Rich Z's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
From: Probably washing the vette....

Posts: 4,814
Darn.... years ago I bought solid copper (I think) 9mm bullets that had the Federal label on them. Ammoman was selling them and I picked up a few boxes. From what I can recall, I think they had to be cast, because I sure didn't see machining marks on them. I'll have to see if I can find a box and take a closer look at them.

Maybe Federal could give you some info on casting if this is the case and you have a part number to reference.
 
Old 05-31-2007, 08:56 AM   #10
 
Joined: May 2007

Posts: 16
Bronze Cast Bullets

Thanks for the correction on the melting temps. I knew they were much
higher than the home melting pot could achieve. Took a shot at what they
might be even though I did see many phase diagrams for the various alloys.
I did incorporate the higher temps in my plans and have scanned various home
made furnaces. A lot of artists and trinket produces do this type metal casting
routinely. This encourages me to continue my research. Really, I have little
choice as, before the decade is done (I predict), the state of California will ban
all lead projectiles. May as well get ready now!

Paul
 
Old 05-31-2007, 09:17 AM   #11
Site Founder
 Rich Z's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
From: Probably washing the vette....

Posts: 4,814
Seems to me those Federal 9mm I mentioned were developed as an "environmentally friendly" round. I took a look and although I can find a couple of those plastic round holders with these copper projectiles on a shelf, I don't see any boxes with a part number on them. But those projectiles look like they are definitely cast and not machined, at least to my untrained eye. I may have an unopened case of them in the ammo pile, but not sure about digging into it to find it.
 
Old 05-31-2007, 10:08 AM   #12
Registered User
 BigEd63's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
From: Arkansas

Posts: 4,130
IIRC those rounds were copper jacketed over some kind of non lead core.

But I may have them confused with another brand as a few had come out with lead free rounds.


I think this came from either the EPA or OSHA shutting down indoor ranges for having too high a lead partical content in the air or something like that.
 
Old 05-31-2007, 04:39 PM   #13
Site Founder
 Rich Z's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
From: Probably washing the vette....

Posts: 4,814
No, these are SOLID copper. I cut one open to check.

I shot one into a clay hill I use for a target backstop and except for the rifling marks, didn't deform even a bit. They are a truncated cone shape.
 
Old 05-31-2007, 04:54 PM   #14
Registered User
 neolithic hunter's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
From: on the back porch

Posts: 1,621
the solid copper bullets you find today are swedged in so reall impressive presses. they start as wire and become bullets. corbin makes a hydrolic press to make solid copper bullets out of wire, its kind of pricey but there the only game in town.
 
Old 05-31-2007, 05:06 PM   #15
Registered User
 BigEd63's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2004
From: Arkansas

Posts: 4,130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z
No, these are SOLID copper. I cut one open to check.

I shot one into a clay hill I use for a target backstop and except for the rifling marks, didn't deform even a bit. They are a truncated cone shape.
Cool, I must have missed those when they came out.

Wish you had a mfg# so I could do a search.

I'd like to hunt some of those up.
 
Old 05-31-2007, 06:04 PM   #16
Site Founder
 Rich Z's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
From: Probably washing the vette....

Posts: 4,814
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd63
Cool, I must have missed those when they came out.

Wish you had a mfg# so I could do a search.

I'd like to hunt some of those up.
Check with Eric at Ammoman.com. That's where I got them and maybe he has a line on more.....
 
Old 05-31-2007, 09:18 PM   #17
Registered User
 .45 COLT's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2003
From: *****

Posts: 397
Quote:
have scanned various home made furnaces.
You might be interested in the furnace at the following link. I've had it on my computer for a couple of years, still haven't read the whole thing. It's made for metal casting.

LINK

DC
 
Old 06-02-2007, 06:52 PM   #18
 
Joined: May 2007

Posts: 16
Cast Bronze Bullets

Visited the Corbin site, they impressed my with the swaging techniques. They
also wow'ed me with the prices! I'll get a book or two on the in's and out's of
swaging.

Glad to see many shooters interested in this topic!

The hunt for the best alloy will continue...........for now, Phoshor Bronze used
in bearings looks promising.

Paul
 
Old 06-04-2007, 10:20 AM   #19
Site Founder
 Rich Z's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2002
From: Probably washing the vette....

Posts: 4,814
Have you considered getting a small lathe and machining your own projectiles instead of casting them?
 
Old 06-04-2007, 03:42 PM   #20
 
Joined: May 2007

Posts: 16
I checked the link provided . . . . "Steve's pages 7d". I don't find "Steve" or "7d".

Did I blow-it?

Paul
 
Reply

  Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Reloading



Search tags for this page
aluminum bronze bullet
,
bronze bullet
,

bronze bullets

,
bronze bullets for reloading
,
bronze cast
,
cast bronze bullets
,
casting brass bullets
,
casting copper bullets
,
how to make bronze bullets
,
is a bullet made of bronze
,
out of bullets bronze
,
solid bronze bullet
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes






Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2003 - 2011 Arms Locker. All rights reserved.