difference between european and american 9mm

DaRkWoLf · 12-04-2006, 02:14 PM

I've been looking around at the various flavors of 9x19 and have found that European made ammo (Fiocchi, S+B, etc) claims to be on average 1250 fps with 123-4 grain FMJs. Private tests abundant on the internet show that these loadings meet their advertised velocities from regular Berettas and Sigs.

Which leaves me wondering: Why are mainstream American loadings (which are in the 1150 fps ballpark) pansy-fied?

BigEd63 · 12-04-2006, 03:53 PM

I've been wondering as well.

That's why I decided to try and work up some loads for the 9mm but FMJ they will not be; instead XTP.

neolithic hunter · 12-04-2006, 05:22 PM

DW the eurpeans being as backwards as they are in most things, when it comes to ammo for weapons in europ, they load mostly to the original spec for the round. as in the 9x19, it was originally loaded by the german military to 1250 fps with a 124 gr bullet. thus the ammo produced in countries on the other side of the pond load it to 1250 fps. now american ammo manufactures put in a fudge factor to cta themselves. you see i europe if your 1918 luger comes unglued they figure it's your problem due to the fact that they can't gurantee the condition of all the lugers being fired in europe. in america the ammo guy's get a big call from a lawyer if there ammo makes a gun go boom. it has nothig to due with the fact that the weapon was defective or not. you see in america it's the falt of the one with the deepest pockets. in europe you can buy factory ammo for the 7.92x57 JS mauser with a 180 gr bullet going almost 2800 fps. if you put it in an 1888 commision rifle and blow youself up it's your falt, not there's. where as in america if you buy factory ammo for your 7.92x57JS mauser, (we call it an 8mm mauser) you will find that the same 180 gr bullet is going about 2350 fps. this is to cover the guy that would put it in a 1888 commision rifle. this is the case even though the 1888 commision rifles that are avalible in america are chambered for the 8x57 round. the germans did this during WWII so that they would have ammo compability with the k-98 rifle then in service. they didn't care if half of the commision rifles exploded or not at the time.

RIKA · 12-04-2006, 05:38 PM

Exactly, its a lawyer thing. 8x57, 7x57, 45-70, 9mm, even 38sp and bunches of other cartridges are loaded down as protection from lawsuits. Reload if you want superior performance.

RIKA

Varnyard · 01-24-2007, 09:07 AM

The 9x18 Mak 95 gr jhp/xtp made by Hornady is a great round. However some models of handguns are not that great at shooting these jhp. The PA 63s sometimes jam with these rounds.

The Wolf 9mm Makarov 100gr work great in the PA 63s, but they are not jhp, but rather fmj in a steel casing. These rounds cannot be reloaded.

brass hammer · 01-25-2007, 12:50 AM

great thread/REPLY neo-hunt!,,, in fact I've been pondering/thinking about
just such a thread topic,,SINCE i've bought the speers volume #13 reloader hardback/from #11,,,and the weeinefied loads are some what,,er,,how shall I state this with dignity for ALL PARTIES CONCERENED!!!,,,RATHER 'weak'[although, the .45colt loading with imr 4227 from the volume #11 manual is CONFLICTING
with 19gr. 200 jacketed/19 gr 250 lead projo's!!!
HEY!, MEYBE 'IFFIN' WE "DUMB" DEM'-DAR' TRIGGER PULLERS DOWN ENOUGH
THERE SHOTS WON'T 'hurt' ANYBODY.

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12-04-2006, 02:14 PM	#1
DaRkWoLf Registered User Joined: Dec 2004 From: Miami, FL Posts: 2,927	European 9mm vs. American 9mm I've been looking around at the various flavors of 9x19 and have found that European made ammo (Fiocchi, S+B, etc) claims to be on average 1250 fps with 123-4 grain FMJs. Private tests abundant on the internet show that these loadings meet their advertised velocities from regular Berettas and Sigs. Which leaves me wondering: Why are mainstream American loadings (which are in the 1150 fps ballpark) pansy-fied?

12-04-2006, 03:53 PM	#2
BigEd63 Registered User Joined: Dec 2004 From: Arkansas Posts: 4,130	I've been wondering as well. That's why I decided to try and work up some loads for the 9mm but FMJ they will not be; instead XTP.

12-04-2006, 05:22 PM	#3
neolithic hunter Registered User Joined: Feb 2005 From: on the back porch Posts: 1,621	DW the eurpeans being as backwards as they are in most things, when it comes to ammo for weapons in europ, they load mostly to the original spec for the round. as in the 9x19, it was originally loaded by the german military to 1250 fps with a 124 gr bullet. thus the ammo produced in countries on the other side of the pond load it to 1250 fps. now american ammo manufactures put in a fudge factor to cta themselves. you see i europe if your 1918 luger comes unglued they figure it's your problem due to the fact that they can't gurantee the condition of all the lugers being fired in europe. in america the ammo guy's get a big call from a lawyer if there ammo makes a gun go boom. it has nothig to due with the fact that the weapon was defective or not. you see in america it's the falt of the one with the deepest pockets. in europe you can buy factory ammo for the 7.92x57 JS mauser with a 180 gr bullet going almost 2800 fps. if you put it in an 1888 commision rifle and blow youself up it's your falt, not there's. where as in america if you buy factory ammo for your 7.92x57JS mauser, (we call it an 8mm mauser) you will find that the same 180 gr bullet is going about 2350 fps. this is to cover the guy that would put it in a 1888 commision rifle. this is the case even though the 1888 commision rifles that are avalible in america are chambered for the 8x57 round. the germans did this during WWII so that they would have ammo compability with the k-98 rifle then in service. they didn't care if half of the commision rifles exploded or not at the time.

12-04-2006, 05:38 PM	#4
RIKA Registered User Joined: Jun 2004 From: In the freezer section Posts: 10,279	Exactly, its a lawyer thing. 8x57, 7x57, 45-70, 9mm, even 38sp and bunches of other cartridges are loaded down as protection from lawsuits. Reload if you want superior performance. RIKA

01-24-2007, 09:07 AM	#5
Varnyard Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 6	The 9x18 Mak 95 gr jhp/xtp made by Hornady is a great round. However some models of handguns are not that great at shooting these jhp. The PA 63s sometimes jam with these rounds. The Wolf 9mm Makarov 100gr work great in the PA 63s, but they are not jhp, but rather fmj in a steel casing. These rounds cannot be reloaded.

01-25-2007, 12:50 AM	#6
brass hammer Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,467	great thread/REPLY neo-hunt!,,, in fact I've been pondering/thinking about just such a thread topic,,SINCE i've bought the speers volume #13 reloader hardback/from #11,,,and the weeinefied loads are some what,,er,,how shall I state this with dignity for ALL PARTIES CONCERENED!!!,,,RATHER 'weak'[although, the .45colt loading with imr 4227 from the volume #11 manual is CONFLICTING with 19gr. 200 jacketed/19 gr 250 lead projo's!!! HEY!, MEYBE 'IFFIN' WE "DUMB" DEM'-DAR' TRIGGER PULLERS DOWN ENOUGH THERE SHOTS WON'T 'hurt' ANYBODY.