Concern Growing Over US Troops' Ammo - Page 2

brass hammer · 10-12-2006, 07:23 PM

well.hell!,, since the 'coy-dog' was mentioned![ha!], my compelled-speech
dictates a 'yarn',,,,so ,,,'crack a cool-one'/'kick-back',,,as yer'uncle -brass

shall enlighten/inform HIS ESTEEMED FELLOW MEMBERS!!!

[ur...ah,,,THE FLOW-VALVE to the "FREEBIE"indicator switch IS offin'
the scale!!!!,,,,so I reckon, there will be "NO-MORE-FREE-ONE'S"

FROM 'UNCLE-BRASS'/south-west CENTRAL. until further notice.]

BigJon · 10-13-2006, 01:41 PM

Discussions such as this really pale in my brain these days with what's going on in Iraq.

I keep thinking that we're in a war we didn't prepare for, didn't staff fully and didn't properly equip our troops for before they went.

We didn't forsee the internal and global consequences of the war before we started it, but we should have.

We have managed the war poorly and don't know how to deal with it politically. And our failures in this regard are well-appreciated by Iran and North Korea.

When we started the war, we had no idea how to end the war, even though we should have remembered from Vietnam that the enemy in a war like this doesn't have to win - they just have to not lose and wait for us to leave.

And our kids are dying every day for it.

With those issues in the forefront of my mind, it's hard to concentrate on caliber-choice discussions.

Oh well. Friday the 13th is just weighing heavily on me I guess.

Best,
Jon

John in AR · 10-13-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MileHighSailor

...The reason the M16 gained the title "The Black Rifle of Death" was due to the original loading of the round. The longer heavier bullet (with canneleur) yawed quickly upon exiting the medium of air and entering the medium of flesh. The canneleur then often caused the bullet to break into more than one piece. The newer loading does away with the bullet's canneleur and the bullet is shorter and lighter.....

I believe the old bullet was lighter (55 grain) and the newer standard is heavier (62 grain), but you’re right about the yawing and fragmenting. Twist rate is a big factor in this.

IMO, the way to make the 5.56 as combat-effective as possible would be to go back to the old cannelured 55-grain bullet, and drop the twist rate down to 1:12, or possibly even 1:14 if it didn’t kill accuracy. Just barely stabilize the bullet in air and make it completely destabilize when it hits anything harder.

This current setup (heavier fmj, shorter barrel, lower velocity, faster twist) is quite possibly the worst-possible combination. If I tried to come up with a worse 5.56 setup, the only thing more I could do to it would be to do more of the same; shorten the barrel and drop the velocity even more.

MileHighSailor · 10-17-2006, 12:26 AM

Thanks for the correction John. I knew somebody out there would know.

spurrit · 10-17-2006, 01:52 AM

Unless we start to make the proper handling of arms, and the and the accurate shooting of such a priority, we'll soon be up to our ass in casualties. I's amazing, with the way guys sweep the muzzles around constantly, and have only the basest understanding of how their rifles work, that there isn't an ND every few minutes.

Gunners762 · 10-17-2006, 06:53 PM

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10-12-2006, 07:23 PM	#21
brass hammer Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,467	well.hell!,, since the 'coy-dog' was mentioned![ha!], my compelled-speech dictates a 'yarn',,,,so ,,,'crack a cool-one'/'kick-back',,,as yer'uncle -brass shall enlighten/inform HIS ESTEEMED FELLOW MEMBERS!!! [ur...ah,,,THE FLOW-VALVE to the "FREEBIE"indicator switch IS offin' the scale!!!!,,,,so I reckon, there will be "NO-MORE-FREE-ONE'S" FROM 'UNCLE-BRASS'/south-west CENTRAL. until further notice.]

10-13-2006, 01:41 PM	#22
BigJon Registered User Joined: May 2004 From: Montgomery, Alabama Posts: 1,062	Discussions such as this really pale in my brain these days with what's going on in Iraq. I keep thinking that we're in a war we didn't prepare for, didn't staff fully and didn't properly equip our troops for before they went. We didn't forsee the internal and global consequences of the war before we started it, but we should have. We have managed the war poorly and don't know how to deal with it politically. And our failures in this regard are well-appreciated by Iran and North Korea. When we started the war, we had no idea how to end the war, even though we should have remembered from Vietnam that the enemy in a war like this doesn't have to win - they just have to not lose and wait for us to leave. And our kids are dying every day for it. With those issues in the forefront of my mind, it's hard to concentrate on caliber-choice discussions. Oh well. Friday the 13th is just weighing heavily on me I guess. Best, Jon

10-17-2006, 12:26 AM	#24
MileHighSailor Registered User Joined: Apr 2005 From: Denver, CO Posts: 182	Thanks for the correction John. I knew somebody out there would know.

10-17-2006, 01:52 AM	#25
spurrit Joined: Aug 2006 Posts: 145	Unless we start to make the proper handling of arms, and the and the accurate shooting of such a priority, we'll soon be up to our ass in casualties. I's amazing, with the way guys sweep the muzzles around constantly, and have only the basest understanding of how their rifles work, that there isn't an ND every few minutes.

10-17-2006, 06:53 PM	#26
Gunners762 Registered User Joined: Jul 2006 From: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,826