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Old 02-22-2005, 01:56 AM   #61
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Darn, wish I wasn't a wussy. 5.7x28 ammo is going on the auction boards for $35 to $40 per box of 50! I should sell the case I have and double my money. But hell, if it does get blocked for sale, then I am screwed with a couple of guns with only a few boxes of ammo and the SCARY proposition of wrecking the gun if I try reloading for it.

Rumors are saying that the NEW ammo coming into production will be 500fps SLOWER then the older stuff.
 
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Old 02-22-2005, 01:41 PM   #62
 
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40gr. data

5.5 grs. of Accurate #9, CCI standard pistol primer, Sierra 40gr. Blitz is going 1,211 fps. The FN seems to operate fine. The case shoulder isn't moving ahead as far as the 192 round does and this load could stand to go up on the charge. 6grs. and 40gr. vmax are now loaded and I'll try them this weekend. Should be able to duplicate the 196 round @1,600 fps. Will post the results.
 
Old 02-22-2005, 02:00 PM   #63
 
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40gr. data

5.5 to 6.5 grs. of Accurate #9 should be the range for 40 gr. bullets trying to get to 1,600 fps.
 
 
Old 02-22-2005, 02:51 PM   #64
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Excellent! Thanks for sharing. I expect that when more people realize that the SS192 is no longer available, that there will be a real scramble to figure out the loading data to duplicate the performance of that round. Heck, I know I am going to be ordering reloading dies pretty shortly myself.....
 
Old 02-22-2005, 03:17 PM   #65
 
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5.7 case

Be sure to size the shoulder back to unfired or new case specs. This affects case capacity. It head spaces of the shoulder and extraction can be affected if not set back. This is just something this case has to deal with. For the time being do not use magnum or rifle primers.
 
Old 02-22-2005, 03:42 PM   #66
 
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5.7 case

The RCBS shell holder will not let the RCBS die size the case back to the factory spec. The #37 Hornady for .25acp will. Light dremel work on the sides where the case head slides in just needs to be opened a bit till the case slides in. 35 gr. bullets should go in the 6.5 to 7.5 charge range of Accurate #9. Save your brass guys. I don't see this cartridge going away. Houston SWAT loves the P90. 5 to 6 rounds will stay on target before climbing off, vrs. 3 or 4 with a M4 .223 AR.
 
Old 02-22-2005, 04:00 PM   #67
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I wonder why FN buckled on the velocity of this round? The SS192 is a hollow point, for crying out loud. How could BATF classify it as an armor piercing round, no matter WHAT the velocity?
 
Old 02-23-2005, 12:29 PM   #68
 
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I still think that it's likely a knee-jerk reaction to head off any potential media hype. Probably in hopes of preventing something similar to what happened with Black Talon ammo, Nyclad ammo, etc.

I used to think that the reporters were ignorant to the facts; lately, I think they count on the general public being ignorant to facts.

To quote one of my favorite movie lines: "A person is smart; people are stupid."
 
Old 02-23-2005, 05:21 PM   #69
 
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awesome info.
thank you

nice to know i wasn't too far off with the h 110 or w 296.

may i ask how much of a flash it is producing relative to the factory stuff?

thanks again going to go look for some 35gr bullets now think some one will introduce a 30gr?

sean
 
Old 02-23-2005, 06:28 PM   #70
 
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i hit a gun-show last week-end,and the ammo vendors played totally dumb[the [1] from ca.anyway!]

[1] ol'boy, whom i enjoyed 'doing biz' with, stated that i was the[4th] person to ask about that cartridge!,,,,all in all, the concences is that the gun/ammo is east of the mississippi,,,,,,,?[in bulk???]

but the ol'boy [who was 'cool'] sold me another ballistic vest for $40[2nd-chance w/trauma plate]
 
Old 03-11-2005, 08:48 AM   #71
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Damn! Prices keep going UP on the SS192 stuff. Auction on Gunbroker is offering 2100 rounds at a Buy It Now price of $3,000!

I think there is sufficient incentive to figure out this reloading stuff and get it down pat. Wish those guys hadn't caved on the anti-gunner's frenzy about yet another "cop-killer" bullet.
 
Old 03-12-2005, 03:13 PM   #72
 
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As do I.
But it's like I stated earlier, this isn't the first time that a manufacturer has caved to media frenzy. Unfortunately, their choices are either cave in, or wind up being labeled as 'cop-killers.'
Whether it is true or not does not matter; it impacts their bottom line. And, after all, it's just a business to them.

Reloading is going to be the option, until the new SS196 becomes more available.

I guess the key is to start really low and work up to a decent load.
I don't want to break #2 as well.
 
Old 03-13-2005, 01:33 AM   #73
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I've got a backorder for the ss196, so as soon as it becomes available, I should be getting a case of it. I already prepaid for it ($699 per 2000) so I am curious to see if that is what the price will remain. Man, I have seen panic buying before, but this takes the cake. REALLY some major class gouging going on as well. Some people asking $85 a box of 50 and higher! That's $1.70 per round! I guess some people will likely start dumping their FiveseveNs when they realize that they don't want to spend $34 every time they emtpy one of those 20 round magazines....
 
Old 03-13-2005, 02:10 PM   #74
 
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I don't expect this to last indefinitely.

Once the SS196 hits the market, and is out there for six months or so, the furor will die down somewhat. That should be sufficient time for the initial rush for ammo to be satisfied. Also, by that time, more reloading data should be available, which I believe will curtail the ability to gouge so severely for a box of ammunition.
Price is a function of what the market will bear; the sooner that serious shooters can reload this cartridge reliably, the less likely that they will pay $1.70 per round.
I agree that some people will be tempted to (and probably will) dump their Five-seveN's. In my opinion, that is a mistake. There are just too many law enforcement agencies, etc. that are jumping on this weapon. It may take time, but I think that it will become more mainstream.
This trend has been coming on for a while.
I suspect this is more the beginning than the end.
 
Old 03-13-2005, 03:38 PM   #75
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Is there some sort of patent issue on the .224 BOZ? Seems to me there would be a lot of cartridges amenable to this sort of modification using widely available SS109 projectiles.
 
Old 03-13-2005, 06:09 PM   #76
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Quote:
Is there some sort of patent issue on the .224 BOZ?
Yes.
Civil Defence has been very aggressive toward wildcatters/diemakers, etc

http://www.civil-defence.org/product...24/boz224.html

These guys sell 7.62x25mm rounds with 5.56 sabots (.223 Timbs):
http://www.qual-cart.com/
 
Old 03-13-2005, 06:57 PM   #77
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Heck, the concept of necking down an existing cartridge to accept a smaller diameter projectile has been used ever since metallic based cases for ammunition has existed. How can their "patent" of a commonly used public domain process hold up?

Actually the entire concept of patenting a cartridge seems to be rather self defeating anyway. It would be like Smith & Wesson patenting the .40S&W as a shortened 10mm. If S&W firearms were the only ones that could use this cartridge except under license, what are the chances that cartridge would still be around today? Or what about the .357Sig, which is basically .40S&W necked down to accept .357 projectiles?

And what the heck is a "worldwide" patent anyway? Is that even enforceable, much less recognized by all countries?
 
Old 03-13-2005, 07:18 PM   #78
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Yeah, I know...it’s gonzo.

I'll bet it’s more for intimidation value than anything else.

On Frugal's about Feb./Mar of 2002 they had a ****load of threads on the .224 Boz and 5.7/30carb and dozens of other similar cartridges.
There was a fellow that said he has dies he made and a 1911 that fires a .45acp necked to .224. Velocities were very close to the Boz.
He used a .223-barrel and cut it to line the STD .45acp pipe.
He said he had been shooting it and 2 others like it for 30years or some **** but didn’t really know what he would use it for other than punching paper and the occasional varmint.
 
Old 03-13-2005, 10:29 PM   #79
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Heck, I'd like to see S&W come out with their .500 S&W necked down to .22 or .30 caliber in a revolver. Now that would be a fun toy to play with!

But anyway, back to the original topic. I'm encouraged to see people buying up all this 5.7x28 ammo at such premium prices. This is certain to get some people's attention and perhaps make a push to get more firearms out in this caliber and start second sourcing some production for the ammo. Maybe someone not suffering from as much wimplash as FN USA/Winchester will start producing the "good stuff".
 
Old 03-14-2005, 12:23 AM   #80
 
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What I would like to see is something like the Ruger 10/22 in 5.7x28. Talk about a heck of a varmit rifle.

By the way, some places are still selling 5.7x28 ammo again to civilians. My local dealer got several cases in last week. and marked it up to ...... $17 dollars a box. Apparently it is still available, I picked up 3000 rounds.
 
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