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Old 12-25-2004, 11:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
too big a waste of time and money for me. Can get the same ballistics out of a 9mm, with the right bullet.
Apples and oranges.

Quote:
The SS190 is the 5.7x28 mm Ball round. Its projectile will perforate any individual protection on today's battlefield including the PASGT kevlar helmet, 48 layers of kevlar body armor and the CRISAT target (titanium and kevlar). The SS190's conventional design allows it to be manufactured on existing production lines, and its lead-free composition eliminates range contamination.
Quote:
Here is a pic of what the 5.7 SS192 ammo will do to a level 2 vest followed by two phone books when fired from the FN Five seveN (note that this vest stopped a .44 magnum, .357 magnum, and .45acp):


The 5.7x28, from what I have heard, was designed for initial penetration of ballistic vests and light personel armor then incapacitation through tumbling action of the projectile. So which do you think would penetrate a ballistic vest better? A 9mm diameter projectile, or a 5.7mm one, at the same velocities?
 
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Old 12-26-2004, 06:41 PM   #22
 
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1st the good info....

FN used a powder that i have never seen before to load the 5.7x28
it is a ball powder very light grey and about 1/4 the diameter of W296 or H110
my thoughts are that do to grain size it is a relatively fast burning powder. but you never know. there was 6.8gr of this powder.
thinking we need to know who loads the ammo for FN and who they buy powder from.

now for the other part of this post....

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
too big a waste of time and money for me. Can get the same ballistics out of a 9mm, with the right bullet. High velocity does nothing for the REALISTIC range limitations of the pistolero (when he's under fire0 Everybody misses the chest (a LOT ) at a mere 25m, when under fire, no cover, no ear protction. In fact,most shots miss the chest at 10m under those same conditions.
as usual andy's mouth has engaged with no connection to the brain.
9mm same ballistics???? WTF not a chance ever hear of sectional density?
in order to accellerate that 9mm to the same velocities you would have to use one of those famous super duper can kill a T-Rex if it just passed by close enough aluminum snot rockets. you may well attain the velocity then.
you would be the last to understand sectional density combined with velocity is required to perform at longer ranges. your 9mm super snot rocket aluminum spit wad would lose velocity too fast to be effective over more than very personal ranges. the 5.7 will do it at 50meters.
this is sort of explained by ice picks penitrating body armour but a 357mag failing to.

further more this is a weapons platfor designed to do this from the begining not duct taped together. and a cartridge designed to work at these pressures and velocities. it also has the recoil of a 22lr auto pistol and IS LEGAL.

the real reason for my purchase of one.....i WANTED IT AND IT'S AN ODDITY.
second may wind up being banned and be difficult to aquire.
third because i didn't have one yet
forth because it is a differnt design.

sean
 
Old 01-03-2005, 11:21 AM   #23
 
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5.7x28 Reloading

A couple of comments for AZ Collector:

1. Thanks for the Midway link for dies. Huntingtons.com also lists dies for around the same price.
2. Couldn't agree more on reasons for acquisition. Purchased a Five-seveN last week for pretty much the same reasons.

Has anyone used dies from Huntingtons? I haven't yet (or Midway for that matter. Pretty much used Lee, RCBS, Hornady, Pacific, etc).

Hoping the ammo will get cheaper, but thinking about dies, just in case.
 
 
Old 01-03-2005, 09:14 PM   #24
 
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lol i could be mistaken but i have never seen a midway die.
believe they just sell redding rcbs lyman lee ect...
the quality of these is pretty well know and midways return policy/customer service is awesome.

C&H dies were recently recomended to me will have to try them out....thinking i will need one in .270

still have slightly cold feet reguarding reloading the 5.7 without any starting point. but as i am chewing through the factory ammo rapidly it looks as if reloading attempts will appear soon.

any info out there that is note posted by gun kid would be rather helpful.
sean
 
Old 01-13-2005, 05:54 AM   #25
 
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Reloading Data

You were absolutely right. Midway and Huntingtons both sell RCBS dies.
I received mine earlier this week.
I currently have requests in to all the major powder manufacturers and also the major bullet manufacturers for any reloading data they might have. No joy yet.
There do seem to be .224 35gr HP slugs available, if we can find the charge info.

If I get anything useful, I'll post it.
 
Old 01-13-2005, 06:37 AM   #26
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you never heard of MISSING, while under fire, at 10 ft, dummy? Sectional density my ass. First you have to HIT the guy who's wearing the armor. How about you put on a 24 layer vest, and let me pop ONE rd of 55 gr, 2100 fps Split NOse at it, from 10ft away, hmm? No CHANCE it will go thru it, right? I mean, those 25 gr brass .25 ACP's, at 1200 fps, never made it thru the Safariland vest. I was just imagining it. Same thing with those 180 gr brass .45's, at 1100 fps. Those big holes in the vest just appeared there by magic. I have no CLUE what I'm talking about.



 
Old 01-13-2005, 01:30 PM   #27
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Melvin,

FYI, FN made the 5.7 SPECIFICALLY to overpenetrate body armor at point blank range. It has been FIELD TRIAL TESTED in the P90 WS to go CLEAR THROUGH level IV WITH Ceramic Plates, go on any military video site and you will see the demonstration.
 
Old 01-13-2005, 01:58 PM   #28
 
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Hmmmm here we have andy's admission of making AP pistol bullets. I wouls expect he gets a visit from the BATFE real soon now.
 
Old 01-14-2005, 07:38 PM   #29
 
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curious.....
andy ...."How about you put on a 24 layer vest, and let me pop ONE rd of 55 gr, 2100 fps Split NOse at it, from 10ft away, hmm? No CHANCE it will go thru it, right? I mean, those 25 gr brass .25 ACP's, at 1200 fps, never made it thru the Safariland vest. I was just imagining it. Same thing with those 180 gr brass .45's, at 1100 fps. Those big holes in the vest just appeared there by magic. I have no CLUE what I'm talking about"
you mean you actually produced that kind of velocity????
and you managed to make those in solid brass?
do you have a pic you could post of it?? just the bullet loaded or not
what did you use to turn them or did you cast them?
when was this? i thought that no one did that anymore.

personally i would rather not think about having to put holes in a bullet proof vest. that would mean the gangsters and muggers are getting entirely too smart. you might find if you were polite and DID NOT have an attitude with peace officers that they would be more relaxed and not hassle you. after all they are there for our protection and to enforce the laws.


RED any info you get on the 5.7x28 would be most appreciated. chickened out on blazing a trail reloading it. wife told me if it went KB she would.... stuff it where the sun don't shine .
something about alot of $$ and stupid male ideas.

sean
 
Old 01-14-2005, 08:35 PM   #30
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Anyone got any feel for how the supply of available 5.7x28 will hold out in the near future? I'm thinking that if someone other manufacturer's don't start making more guns for this caliber, it's going to go the way of the dodo bird.

Yeah, we can reload it, I guess, but I think I would rather buy more ammo and just salt it away. That would give me a bunch of brass to play with later on down the road.

AZC, did you ever get that shell holder problem figured out? Does this cartridge take a unique holder or will something else work?

Maybe you should video take your test sessions with your reloads. Would hate for you to have a major KB and we all wouldn't know what NOT to do!
 
Old 01-14-2005, 10:39 PM   #31
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Here's why we all http://www.nynewsday.com/other/special/amny/need one.

It's the dumbest link I've ever seen.Have to click on the story headline & it'll load.

Wierd.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=120515

Try this way.The first link prolly won't work
 
Old 01-18-2005, 07:20 AM   #32
 
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Responses for several members

AZ: I have a chrony on the way from Midway. I mic'ed the factory slug last night and it's definitely a .224, so the only real issue is getting close to the right grain weight and length. Hornady and Speer both have HP slugs in the 30's. I'm planning on trying one of these first. I'll start out low & work up to the published velocities. Certainly I will pass along powder of choice and load when I get something I like.

RICH Z: I have found ammo (from another forum) at www.wholesalehunter.com. They don't yet list it on the website, but they have it for $17.00 / box of 50. So far, this is the cheapest I've seen. Their part number for the ammo is # 10700002.
Also, www.huntingtons.com has a shell holder (RCBS) for $16.95. You order it by cartridge name. I have two and they fit very nicely.

41 MAG: Nothing specifically to respond to, other than that I am also a fan of .41 mag. I'm currently on my fourth (two Smith 657's, one Smith 57, and a Dan Wesson 41VH).
 
Old 01-18-2005, 12:16 PM   #33
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Actually, I bought 2100 rounds for $699 a while back. From Arizona Gun Runners, if I recall correctly. Not sure if it is still going for this price or not, but I do recall several places offering it for right around that price at the time. At one point CDDN had a case (2100 rounds) for $649 with free shipping, but I don't know if they still offer that or not.
 
Old 01-18-2005, 02:09 PM   #34
 
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Can you give me a link or number for CDDN?
When I search for this, I get a 'computer direct' website hit.
Thanks.
 
Old 01-18-2005, 02:34 PM   #35
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Oops! It is CDNN, not CDDN.... Sorry. http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

Please let me know what you come up with. I may want to order another case myself.

BTW, I just got a notice that the backordered 20 round magazines for the FiveseveN I ordered from Arizona Gun Runners are being shipped to me, finally. So looks like another load has come in. Grab them while you can.
 
Old 01-19-2005, 06:39 AM   #36
 
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I looked this morning at CDNN and didn't see any ammo listed. Maybe they don't bother posting it on their site. I haven't called yet to verify.

I received the ammo from WholesaleHunter last night. It came packed in a military 7.62x51 ammo can, which was inside the shipping box. Twenty boxes made the can less than half full, which explains why a 'case' is 2100 rounds.
The ammo that came bears an FN lot number and is, of course, SS192 type. I must admit that 'practice ammo' being hollow-points is somewhat of a culture change for me.
 
Old 01-19-2005, 07:37 AM   #37
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Arizona Gun Runners says they still have the ammo at $699 per case.

http://www.arizonagunrunners.net/Pro...ng/fnmfng.html

They also offer the "other" ammo to LEOs, if you qualify.
 
Old 01-19-2005, 09:37 AM   #38
 
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Thanks for the heads-up on the cheap ammo.
I do find it odd that blank ammo is LEO.

I'm not LE, so I don't qualify for the FMJ's.
I could reload some, I suppose, but on my single-stage press it probably wouldn't be as cost effective as the factory HP's. I expect the FMJ's will probably come around once the hype dies down a bit. After all, there are more than a few legal cartridges (mostly in rifle chamberings) that will perform similarly. Remington's .30-06 Accelerator comes to mind at 4080 fps. While it is a rifle cartridge, more than a few handguns (mostly single-shot) can fire it.
Sort of a moot point for me anyway. When I carry a handgun, I load hollow-points.
I haven't had to worry about penetrating body armor for several years now, and don't anticipate needing to anytime soon.
Should an 'LA' type situation occur, SWAT & the PD are more than welcome to handle it.
 
Old 02-06-2005, 04:53 PM   #39
 
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Any more news on reloading the 5.7. I've looked at several forums, but have yet to see any specifics.

Thanks
 
Old 02-07-2005, 08:48 AM   #40
 
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Reloading

So this weekend, I experimented with reloading the 5.7.
As you know, there are no exact weight slugs available. The diameter (.224, I have mic'ed this) is plentiful; slug weight (28 grains) is not. I purchased some 33, 35, and 40 grain ones from various suppliers.
The ammo is manufactured with 28 (SS192), 31 (SS190) , and 55 (SS193 subsonic) grain slugs.

The first problem you will encounter is that the factory slugs are quite long for their weight. A 40 grain slug is the only thing that comes close. The 33 grain Speer slugs are about 1/2 the length of the factory ones. I tried them first, but the accuracy sucked. I tried the longer, 40 grain slugs, and broke my gun!

The polymer take-down lever appeared to be the first point of failure, which allowed the metal clip (which blocks the slide) to raise up. This obviously happened while the slide was recoiling, which was a bad thing.
The front T-rail seems "lifted" at the rear. The front of the slide that grips the T-rail is bowed outwards from the recoil impact. Barrel and receiver seem fine, but who knows. The entire take-down mechanism is damaged.

According to the chrony, the projectile was only traveling at 428 fps. Overpressure obviously was not the problem (no indicators on the brass). It would seem that the Five-seveN is only built to withstand the normal recoil of the 28 grain slug.

An expensive lesson for me. Hopefully others will gain some benefit from this.

I'm going later to buy a new one. Not sure if I'm going to try a repair or not. (Not even sure if parts are available.)
 
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