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Old 07-12-2004, 07:24 PM   #1
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reloading for the .40 S&W???

Howdy,

I just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts and experiences were for reloading average power (not maximum velocity) loads in the .40 S&W. I know that a lot of guns out there (mainly Glocks!) do NOT fully support the cartridge in the chamber. This disgusts me, but it is a fact of life. I also know that some people say never reload ANY .40 S&W rounds (pretty much the people who believe the word of Glock is as meaningful as the word of God) while others say they've reloaded a BUNCH for even Glocks with no problem.

Anyway, I'd be reloading MOSTLY as follows: for a Kel-Tec sub2000 and Sig P229 and p230, lead projectiles in the 165-200 grain range, mixed brass (mainly Speer and Winchester), and Titegroup powder. My questions concern if anyone knows how fully supported the cartridges are in the Sub2000 and Sig pistols AND how safe most people have found reloaded for non-Glock guns to be? How many times do y'all typically reload .40 brass before tossing it? (Obviously, I would do batch reloads and toss batches if I start seeing obvious signs of stress in the brass of a certain batch.) I'm asking how many times do you reload before tossing the batch even without seeing signs of stress if this is applicable?

Thanks,
KJ
 
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Old 07-12-2004, 09:38 PM   #2
 
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brass?

i can't attest to merits of .40 but take it for what it's worth [free]
do not try to make it some thing it is not . your weapon will stay relatively in pristine condition and brass is a non -issue once chamfered, i like the .45 and have reloaded same brass 10 years easy [i'm happy with a 75-80%recovery] i own 3 . take it for what it's worth[free]

thanks. p.s hey DAVIS i need to collect that $50 a.s.a.p.
 
Old 07-12-2004, 09:47 PM   #3
 
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sig-220

had it sense they came out in '75' your 229 is equal, heed last post bro, and you shouldn't have a problem, unless it's finding them on the ground.

thanks. hey, davis! i'll be needing that chair location doncha' know ringworm!
 
 
Old 07-12-2004, 10:24 PM   #4
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question is, why BOTHER? for the 10c

savings in ammo cost, WASTED time on reloading, recovering, cleaning cases, you could QUICKLY pay for a USED 9mm version of the same guns, and practice with THOSE. Not HAVING to pick up brass, clean it, have $600 tied up in a progressive reloader, etc. Believe me, for realistic shooting, there is NO difference in between shooting 9mm and shooting "less than max' loaded .40's. The diff in levels of blast and recoil is completely irrelevant.




Last edited by andy; 07-14-2004 at 06:46 PM.
 
Old 07-13-2004, 04:35 AM   #5
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Re: question is, why BOTHER? for the 10c

Quote:
Originally posted by 223 fan
savings in ammo cost, WASTED time on reloading, recovering, cleaning cases, you could QUICKLY pay for a USED 9mm version of the same guns, and practice with THOSE. Not HAVING to pick up brass, clean it, have $600 tied up in a progressive reloader, etc. Believe me, for realistic shooting, there is NO difference in between shooting 9mm and shooting "less than max' loaded 9mm's. The diff in levels of blast and recoil is completely irrelevant.
I actually have some 9mm's, too. Believe it or not, but I even reload (and make my own projectiles) for the 9mm. Sure, it only saves my 30+% or so in the 9mm (which means I get to shoot 30+% more....lol), but the reloading part is NOT a waste of time to me any more than you posting here instead of practicing isa waste of time to you. We do it for the same reason: we enjoy it. Heck, if reloading cost more than buying factory ammo and wasn't more accurate (in hunting loads), I'd still reload. I enjoy it.

...and, I love the 9mm for practice, but I hate the 9mm round for self defense. My choice: right or wrong.
KJ
 
Old 07-14-2004, 06:48 PM   #6
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u dont save ANYTHING over the price

of 10c per rd 9mm. The primer is 2.5c, the powder is a penny, the brass costs .5c, the bullet costs 5c, the EFFORT to recover the brass is worth at LEAST more than a penny, because you wouldn't BOTHER to pick up a penny. Nobody does. So your time is worth NOTHING, and you lose money on the reloading gear, too. TRY selling it used, SEE if you can get even HALF what it cost you. :-)



 
Old 07-14-2004, 09:20 PM   #7
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Re: u dont save ANYTHING over the price

> The primer is 2.5c,

The primer is usually only 1.5c, but definitely less than 1.7c. Waste is a couple per thousand. Let's average that to 1.6/primer.

> the powder is a penny,

Hmmm, 4lbs x 7000gr/lb = 28000grains. Cost is roughly $55/4lbs. That's 0.2c/gr. I use about 3 grains per round. That's about 0.6c per round.

> the brass costs .5c,

No, the brass is free when I buy the ammo or when I pick it up as once-fired brass at the range. The cost here is irrelevant, but I do use tumbling media, brass polish, etc. I'll estimate this as 0.1c per brass, but i doubt if it is that high.

> the bullet costs 5c,

My last bullets cost me $31.98 per thousandplus tax, so let's round that to 3.5c each. (This is much less if when make my own, too.)

The total comes to 1.6 + 0.6 + 0.1 + 3.5 = 5.8c per round AFTER tax! Price for 9mm loaded ammo is usually around $100/1000 rounds. That's a 42% savings.

Is it worth my time? If I enjoy it, YES. If I didn't, I doubt it. I do enjoy it, like learning from the experience, feel it is an important step in shooting, and it lets me enjoy my hobby even when I can NOT make it to the range.

If you don't want to do it, I don't care. I like to do it. Just don't lie and say it doesn't save money. It doesn't save TIME, but it does save money. Now, if you budget in my time at the rate I get paid at work, then I do lose money. BUT, I'm salaryso I don't get paid for overtime, so I don't lose money anyway. I do NOT put a price on the hobby I enjoy. I feel pity for you since you obviosuly do.

> the EFFORT to recover the brass is worth at LEAST more than a penny, because you wouldn't BOTHER to pick up a penny. Nobody does.

Nah, I'm likea raccoon: I like to pick up things that shine. Also, it's like a mini-treasure hunt!

> and you lose money on the reloading gear, too. TRY selling it used, SEE if you can get even HALF what it cost you.

Well, after a couple thousand rounds, the reloading presses are paid for. Still, you only lose resale value if you ever try to sale them. I have NO intention of selling them, so I don't have a way to LOSE money, do I?

Why would I want to sale them, anyway? I don't have to run to the pawn shop between paychecks since I know how to budget my pay, etc. More irrelevant "facts" here.

Sorry if I made a mistake in the above basic math. It's late, I'm tired, and I just did it quick without double checking to make a point. The prices paid ARE accurate.

KJ
 
Old 07-15-2004, 08:42 AM   #8
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how u figure brass is free? it's PART

of the price of new ammo, and it DOES wear out, get lost, etc. Retreiving it is ALSO a cost. Just TRY to get anyone to pick it up for free. Most stores charge $22 a thousand for primers, PLUS tax. There is a "hazardous material" shipping cost added to primers, which you are conveniently "overlooking". If you buy 4000 rds of 9mm CCI Blazer, on sale, you can get it for 9c a round, sometimes. So, no, you aint saving a thing on 9mm ammo. The loss of money on reloading gear is a FACT, regardless of how much you WANT to duck it.



 
Old 07-16-2004, 06:07 AM   #9
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Re: how u figure brass is free? it's PART

I'm sorry, but your level of ineptitude in admitting you might not alwasy be right disgusts me. See below.

> of the price of new ammo, and it DOES wear out, get lost, etc.

Yes, I agree. HOWEVER, if you buy a thousand rounds and throw it away or keep the brass to reload, the price of the next thousand rounds is exactly the same. So, the price of the once fired brass IF YOU BUY THE LOADED AMMUNITION ANYWAY is NO ADDITONAL COST. Getting something for no additional cost doesn't COST anything extra, doesn't it? This is free in my book.

> Retreiving it is ALSO a cost. Just TRY to get anyone to pick it up for free.

My wife picks up more at the range than I care to reload. Just because you are a felon and can't opennly shoot at a rane at will, doesn't mean we don't. Usually while I tape targets, etc., (since it only takes one), she'll have a pile picked up already instead of just sitting on her butt doing nothing while waiting to shoot again. SO, I DO have someone to pick it up for me for free. Also, I almost ALWAYS pick up more than I shoot (in 9mm Luger), so those don't cost me ANYTHING except a little bit of time. Since it only takes a couple of minutes for those of us with some sense, this doesn't affect anything.

> Most stores charge $22 a thousand for primers, PLUS tax. There is a "hazardous material" shipping cost added to primers, which you are conveniently "overlooking".

Hmmm, I just checked the receipt on the last 12,000 primers I bought at a gun show. (I'm not a felon, so I can go to a gunshow and buy ANYTHING there than I want and can afford.) They were $13.25 per box of 1,000 WSP and WLP (same price for both). That/s about 1.43c each AFTER tax. If you count gas, parking, entrance fee, etc., you are STILL looking at less than 1.8c EACH! Since I bought a LOT of other supplies, etc., it isn't fair to really put that cost in the primer boat, no is it? ...and, to tell the truth, I would have went to the gun show even if I didn't intend to buy anything. It lasts longer than a movie, I enjoy it more, and the cot is les or the same! That cost should go into the entertainment bucket.

> If you buy 4000 rds of 9mm CCI Blazer, on sale, you can get it for 9c a round, sometimes.

I don't shoot that crap in my gun. Except for milsurp guns, I don't fire anything but brass or nickle plated brass in my guns. My choice. Not yours. So, the savings are nonexistent since Blazer is NOT an option for me. (I just bought my first box of Blazer Brass, but I haven't tried it yet.)

> So, no, you aint saving a thing on 9mm ammo. T

You are still wrong. Have you ever been correct on this forum yet?

KJ
 
Old 08-06-2004, 09:57 AM   #10
 
Joined: May 2004

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reloading for the .40

I reload .40 for a ccw gun. a Taurus melineum. It does have a fully supported chamber. I reload mostly 135 gr bullets. or 155 gr. This is the only pistol i download because the gun is so light it generates a lot of recoil. If i use anything on the upper end of the scale, it twists my wrist up and to the right.

However when i carry for selfe defense, i use factory gold dots. Then it wouldn matter what my wrist feels like.
 
Old 08-06-2004, 11:37 AM   #11
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Hmmm...my suggestion is just follow the standard reloading procedures like you would for any other round.

When I did load .40 S&W it was for a Glock 23 and dispite all the horse-$hit about it on the interenet never had a problem.

Most of the bellyaching and ka-booms comes from people who want 10mm performance in .40S&W case or those who want to run bargin basment reloads in them, IMHO.

What they should do is what I did; get a 10mm.
 
Old 08-06-2004, 05:15 PM   #12
 
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I wouldn't worry about reloading in either the Kel-Tec or the Sig. TODD gave good advice, just load safe ammo like you already know how to do since you said you reloaded. The only Kabooms I've heard of in real life (at the range) were guys hotrodding 180-grainers.

But that shouldn't matter, as most know, the fastest recipe is usually (never, in my experience) the most accurate.

For the economically challenged: Buying bullets, primers, powder and NEW brass, tends to run about HALF the cost of NIB, bulk ammo if you load in at least 1000 round batches. For rounds that have surplus available the surplus runs close to, +/- a few cents per round. The REAL saving is in the subsequent loads of the same brass. Say you load 1000 rounds, starting with new brass, and get 4 reloads before the brass goes south. You got the equivalent of 4000 rounds WITHOUT PAYING FOR THE BRASS. The brass is usually the most expensive part of the load, and this is where the big savings are.

As for personal cost, most who reload consider it a hobby, so it's WORTH doing, and FUN. The time spent is the "cost" of the entertainment.
 
Old 12-31-2007, 06:26 AM   #13
 
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I'm just a devoted reloader and with the exception of .22LR, if I can't reload for a gun, I really don't want it. I just love to reload about like some people like to work in the garden.

But I don't own a 9 or 10 and the reason is a bit strange. I don't like to load for such small short cases. It's hell to do it without my press constantly biting my finger tips. Maybe I'm just dumber than the average bear.

Anyway, I'll sure never throw stones at anyone who wants to load anything. And I agree about picking up shiney things. I've been known to pick up 380 brass and I don't even own one. Go figure.
 
Old 12-31-2007, 01:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aztec View Post
I'm just a devoted reloader and with the exception of .22LR, if I can't reload for a gun, I really don't want it. I just love to reload about like some people like to work in the garden.

But I don't own a 9 or 10 and the reason is a bit strange. I don't like to load for such small short cases. It's hell to do it without my press constantly biting my finger tips. Maybe I'm just dumber than the average bear.

Anyway, I'll sure never throw stones at anyone who wants to load anything. And I agree about picking up shiney things. I've been known to pick up 380 brass and I don't even own one. Go figure.

I pick up any good brass that is left around. Sometimes I know someone with the caliber, other times I can find people that will trade brass with me. As long as you have room to store the brass, it isn't a problem.
 
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