usd, upside down .38 wadcutters need 900 fps

justme · 10-05-2016, 06:33 PM

to expand reliably in WATER, and they expand better in water than in vital organs, believe it. Dead soft lead and a HUGE nose cavity. Put a jacket on the bullet and a smaller nose cavity and guess what? It wont' expand reliably short of 1200 fps, and not even then if the cavity gets clogged with heavy winter clothiung. which is why I want nothing to do with normal weight 9mm jhps in short barrels, much less .38 snubs, makarovs, or 380's. The needed power just aint there.

gripper · 10-05-2016, 07:30 PM

Does anyone still use hollow based wadcutters loaded backwards? In .38 Special and .357 Magnums,I used to favor the hard cast 158grain SWCHP(or even without the HP part) , loaded out from 950-1000fps in a .38 ;quite a bit faster in .357... that was just what shot well in my revolvers. I wasn't really concerned with expansion as much as other concerns. I had a friend that liked that HBWC in a .44Special(he had a Rossi 3 incher)but although you could mix a drink in the open base I was never impressed by its accuracy even beyond 7yards.Chronograph data had me thinking of something you would associate with those British Service Revolver loads for the .455 and .38 S&W(I think the Brits called it a .380/200 or something like that). Even for me,who generally stays on the " middle" side of "hot"loads; this was SLOW. Not sure if it was the bullet seating or other factors that kept them under 800FPS.

John in AR · 10-06-2016, 07:46 AM

justme - you never answered my questions in these threads:

https://armslocker.com/gun-talk/58089...other-you.html

https://armslocker.com/handguns/58073...ess-power.html

https://armslocker.com/handguns/58057...low-point.html

Garand · 10-06-2016, 12:16 PM

Melvin knows that if he actually answered intelligent questions here, he would look like a bigger fool than he already appears to be.

Terry G · 10-06-2016, 02:59 PM

This idea is older than dirt. Hollow based bullet loaded backwards? It's 2016.

justme · 10-07-2016, 05:03 PM

if it wont expand, why bother with it?

gripper · 10-07-2016, 05:15 PM

Expansion is one important factor.
Others include penetration,weight retention,performance in and against different barrier material,accuracy,feed,functiin,extraction;and the ability to lay hands on loaded ammo and/or components.

BigBassMan · 10-07-2016, 05:34 PM

You have to remember Melvin has never seen decent bullets much less shot any legally.

gripper · 10-07-2016, 06:22 PM

I am not one to grind it in.
Back to the point: I prefer penetration and the ability to retain weight/break bones over rapid expansion or fragmentation. Yes , there's legitimate argargums on ends of the continuum. It's a question of trade-offs.

justme · 10-07-2016, 06:36 PM

step in front of an "illegally-fired" bullet and see if it doesn't put a hole in your stupid ass. the arguments in favor of deeper than 8" of penetration (in animal's chests) are bogus, not legitimate at all (for civilians firing in justifiable self defense).

gripper · 10-07-2016, 06:51 PM

The very term " legally" or " illegally" in this context is contrary to my beliefs. If you are not in prison,and debarred the use of arms;well why let you out?
I am on record as holding all firearms restrictions,gun laws and those who would enforce them in equal contempt.
Now back to the point:JMD has some issues. Many are self inflicted. That said, I don't gloat. More than a few of us could be disenfranchised of our rights-albeit for different reasons than he was.
Was he a murderer?A Chimp?A rapist? Nope. Are there things he brags about doing on occasion that anger me? Regularly. But I don't do the " I legally carry and he can't" thing as though my exercise of a right is an accomplishment. What IS an accomplishment is my own " grey area reinstatement": I won my case,but beyond my " good name" really have nothing to show for it.
The OP? I'd rather shoot through things and break bones vs over expand and under penetrate. My bias,based on my experiences. And yes,my experience includes fatalities and two-way risks.

10-05-2016, 06:33 PM	#1
justme Registered User Joined: Jun 2016 From: USA Posts: 1,430	usd, upside down .38 wadcutters need 900 fps to expand reliably in WATER, and they expand better in water than in vital organs, believe it. Dead soft lead and a HUGE nose cavity. Put a jacket on the bullet and a smaller nose cavity and guess what? It wont' expand reliably short of 1200 fps, and not even then if the cavity gets clogged with heavy winter clothiung. which is why I want nothing to do with normal weight 9mm jhps in short barrels, much less .38 snubs, makarovs, or 380's. The needed power just aint there.

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10-05-2016, 07:30 PM	#2
gripper Registered User Joined: Oct 2003 From: nashua nh Posts: 2,662	Does anyone still use hollow based wadcutters loaded backwards? In .38 Special and .357 Magnums,I used to favor the hard cast 158grain SWCHP(or even without the HP part) , loaded out from 950-1000fps in a .38 ;quite a bit faster in .357... that was just what shot well in my revolvers. I wasn't really concerned with expansion as much as other concerns. I had a friend that liked that HBWC in a .44Special(he had a Rossi 3 incher)but although you could mix a drink in the open base I was never impressed by its accuracy even beyond 7yards.Chronograph data had me thinking of something you would associate with those British Service Revolver loads for the .455 and .38 S&W(I think the Brits called it a .380/200 or something like that). Even for me,who generally stays on the " middle" side of "hot"loads; this was SLOW. Not sure if it was the bullet seating or other factors that kept them under 800FPS.

10-06-2016, 07:46 AM	#3
John in AR Registered User Joined: May 2004 From: Central Arkansas Posts: 5,002	justme - you never answered my questions in these threads: https://armslocker.com/gun-talk/58089...other-you.html https://armslocker.com/handguns/58073...ess-power.html https://armslocker.com/handguns/58057...low-point.html

10-06-2016, 12:16 PM	#4
Garand Registered User Joined: Jun 2004 From: Canadian Badlands Posts: 8,758	Melvin knows that if he actually answered intelligent questions here, he would look like a bigger fool than he already appears to be.

10-06-2016, 02:59 PM	#5
Terry G Registered User Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 4,896	This idea is older than dirt. Hollow based bullet loaded backwards? It's 2016.

10-07-2016, 05:03 PM	#6
justme Registered User Joined: Jun 2016 From: USA Posts: 1,430	if it wont expand, why bother with it?

10-07-2016, 05:15 PM	#7
gripper Registered User Joined: Oct 2003 From: nashua nh Posts: 2,662	Expansion is one important factor. Others include penetration,weight retention,performance in and against different barrier material,accuracy,feed,functiin,extraction;and the ability to lay hands on loaded ammo and/or components.

10-07-2016, 05:34 PM	#8
BigBassMan Registered User Joined: Jun 2015 From: North Posts: 1,584	You have to remember Melvin has never seen decent bullets much less shot any legally.

10-07-2016, 06:22 PM	#9
gripper Registered User Joined: Oct 2003 From: nashua nh Posts: 2,662	I am not one to grind it in. Back to the point: I prefer penetration and the ability to retain weight/break bones over rapid expansion or fragmentation. Yes , there's legitimate argargums on ends of the continuum. It's a question of trade-offs.

10-07-2016, 06:36 PM	#10
justme Registered User Joined: Jun 2016 From: USA Posts: 1,430	step in front of an "illegally-fired" bullet and see if it doesn't put a hole in your stupid ass. the arguments in favor of deeper than 8" of penetration (in animal's chests) are bogus, not legitimate at all (for civilians firing in justifiable self defense).

10-07-2016, 06:51 PM	#11
gripper Registered User Joined: Oct 2003 From: nashua nh Posts: 2,662	The very term " legally" or " illegally" in this context is contrary to my beliefs. If you are not in prison,and debarred the use of arms;well why let you out? I am on record as holding all firearms restrictions,gun laws and those who would enforce them in equal contempt. Now back to the point:JMD has some issues. Many are self inflicted. That said, I don't gloat. More than a few of us could be disenfranchised of our rights-albeit for different reasons than he was. Was he a murderer?A Chimp?A rapist? Nope. Are there things he brags about doing on occasion that anger me? Regularly. But I don't do the " I legally carry and he can't" thing as though my exercise of a right is an accomplishment. What IS an accomplishment is my own " grey area reinstatement": I won my case,but beyond my " good name" really have nothing to show for it. The OP? I'd rather shoot through things and break bones vs over expand and under penetrate. My bias,based on my experiences. And yes,my experience includes fatalities and two-way risks.