|01-23-2016, 10:41 AM||#1|
Joined: May 2014
ive shot a lot of critters with hot 380 loads
and .38 special loads, and they are just not adequate. It takes 20 coin tosses to determine the true 50-50 probability of heads or tails. you can prove to yourself how VERY common it is to have 5-6 "straight' of the same side of your coin, in 5-6 tosses. So, for experience to be any guide about handgun loads vs men, you'd have to have chest-hit 20 (adrenalized) men with any given load that you're recommending.
Nobody has ever done so, so nobody can say, from personal experience on men, what handgun load is superior. Very few people have shot more than 1-2 men with a handgun and almost nobody has shot 10. The only one that I know of in such company is Jim Cirillo, NYPD stakeout specialist, who shot a dozen men (with a handgun) by himself, and double-teams half a dozen more with his partner. Jim mostly used .38 lrn's, from a 2" Dick Special, due to the way he often had to handle things.
For the dumb punks here, I'm not talking about hunting with 6" barreled magnums and single shots! I'm the only one with 20 chest hits on animals, with EACH of a wide variety of ccw guns and loads. The only way to get that much flesh and blood experience is to drive the back-roads, with ear-protection, either at night with lights, or in the evenings of late spring. That is how you can hit over 100 animals per year, for many years. Today, tho, you'd need an altered license plate and silencers, cause everybody with a cell phone thinks they are a cop! :-)
So it is EXTREMELY unlikely that anyone but me will EVER have the actual flesh and blood experience required to have a valid opinion on what ccw loads work best. and I"m here to tell you that 230 gr jhp .45's from 4" barrels do NOT expand in critters, if not plus P loaded. All you get is the effect of the flat nose, which aint much.
With a locked breech 380 and WW Silvertip 85 gr jhp;s, hot loaded to 1300 fps, you get BETTER effects on canines than a lwc .45 with ball. I aint kidding or mistaken. .45 ball is depressingly low in its effectiveness. normal 380 jhp's don;t expand in critters and 380 ball might as well be a Stinger .22lr from a RIFLE (just 150 ft lbs). Enough for an un-adrenalized cottontail rabbit, but that's all.
As a kid, I was a big .45 ball fan, too. When I saw it fail, I switched to swc's, saw them (mostly) fail, switched to jhp's, and saw them fail, too, until I tried some Super Vel 90 gr 9mm's, 1500 fps from my 5" Browning. THOSE were impressive (for no more than a 9mm IS, of course). When I finally moved up to 110 gr full bore jhp's in a 4" 357 (ie, 1500 fps) I FINALLY saw the "hammered to the ground" effect which I had sought, but still saw some failures and the recoil caused my repeat hit times to double, as compared to the 9mm.
I knew hot-loaded .45 colt and .44 mag (using jhps and swc's) were much too big and heavy to ccw and too slow for repeat shots, but out of curiousity, i wasted some time and money on them anyway, and discovered that even they failed on occasion, too.
It wasn't until I hollow-based some 185 gr WW Silvertip .45 jhp's to 160 grs and drove them over 1100 fps in a LW commander that I finally saw real effectiveness, concealability and rapidfire control in one package. Even then, it took a world class IPSC competitor to get the repeat hit speed that I wanted (ie, sub- .20 second average split times, on 10" vitals circle at 10 ft. A bit less recoil than .45 ball, which is still a bit much in a 27 oz gun, and it's not AP, nor will it fit in a pants pocket, nor does it create 2 wound tracks per hit, nor does it have the ability to destroy organ tissue with just its temporary gas cavity.
Flesh and blood is flesh and blood. We are mammals, too. If a bullet does not expand in animals, or have much effect on a mere chuck or coon, there is no reason at all to expect it to do better vs men. Animals don't wear CLOTHING, which often "clogs" the nose cavity of a hp, delaying or preventing expansion of said bullet. Animals aint shooting at you, and can rarely inflict 6-8 wounds per second on you, as a man CAN. About the only critter that can do that is a big cat,
Last edited by nikto; 01-23-2016 at 11:05 AM.