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Old 10-01-2003, 07:42 AM   #1

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It's pretty hard to think of a gun in this

category, but wth? Let's deal with the Savage and other Over-under rifle-shotgun combos, that are supposed to be the cat's butt for "survival", farm-ranch use, etc. They are of course single shots, most of them require thumbcocking of the hammer for each shot, with a flip of a switch to change from the shotgun to the rifle, etc. They run pretty close to $500 each, by the time you pay the sales tax.

I submit that these things are quite inferior to a pair of good pistols. The long arm is a pain to always have handy, the pistols are not. For the .22, if you want max accuracy and range on small game and birds, you might want to add a scope. The lightest pc that has enough barrel and size to have some real accuracy is the mostly-polymer Mountain Eagle. At 26 or so ozs, with say, 8 ozs of scope, it's quite capable of 1" at 25m. That will suffice to take rabbits, etc to 50m, or a bit more. That's plenty of gametaking potentialj, right up there with what can be done with the iron sighted o/u combo gun. If you scope the o/u, you ruin it for use as a wingshooting gun.

Taking birds on the wing is not necessary, and birds aren't worth a shotshell in a survival scenario, unless it's a goose or turkey, or if you can groundswat a bunch of them with a single blast. 2-3 ducks with one shot is a fairly good return for the noise, and the bulk and wt of the shotshell.

No more range or power than a 20 ga slug has, a good, lw autopistol, in a powerful caliber-load, like, say, the 38 Casull, or the 40 Super, or the 460 Rowland, would have as much range and effectiveness on deer sized game. Such a gun can weigh as little as 32 ozs, with an alloy frame, a 6" barrel, and a compensator. 26 ozs for the .22, and 32 ozs for the centerfire add up to a touch over 3.5 lbs, while the o/u combo is 7 lbs. The holstered pistols are a lot more out of the way than is a slung longarm, and the repeat firepower of the autopistols is worth quite a bit, too. I've hit animals with followup shots before, either an escaping cripple, one I missed completely, or another animal after I downed the first one with the first shot. There's also the potential for having to handle a dog pack, a rabid animal or men. No single shot is much help for such situations.
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Old 10-01-2003, 06:30 PM   #2
Joined: Oct 2003

Posts: 65
I would rather just have a .22 pistol myself. I've learned to be rather self sufficient afield, knapping, skinning, tanning, trapping, pelting, foraging, and so on. The only thing I couldn't make would be a complete .22 pistol. It requires certain technological finesse not found in naturally afield. But having a pistol would go a long way towards establishing the 'breathing room' needed to assemble the possibles needed to survive.
Old 10-02-2003, 08:59 AM   #3

Posts: n/a
A suppressor on that 22 would be a

HUGE help, too, ya know. :-)
Old 10-02-2003, 04:48 PM   #4
Joined: Oct 2003

Posts: 65
requires maintainance eqpuipment you cant rely on providing in field contitions to keep funtioning reliably, but it could help against people
Old 10-25-2003, 12:35 AM   #5
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 Rich Z's Avatar
Joined: Feb 2002
From: Probably washing the vette....

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Has anyone here ever fired one of those Ruger 10/22 with the integral suppressor? I see them at the shows every once in a while, and I do realize it would require a tax stamp to get one. Does the suppressor really work? What about accuracy with something like that?

I think it would really keep the squirrels around here guessing when their neighbors were dropping out of the trees around them.
Old 10-25-2003, 08:01 AM   #6
Joined: Oct 2003

Posts: 65
i have a custom 10/22 with a supressed barrel that is 18" long. it is a lot of fun, supressor maintainance isnt to much of a hassle, and it does shoot very well. its fitted with a bausch and laumb glass and i have groups of just under .9" at 100 yards. although at 100 yards it usually averages about 1.2", this is using measured eley tennex ammo however.
Old 11-15-2003, 09:25 AM   #7
Joined: Nov 2003

Posts: 8
I am very fond of the model 24 due to its versatility, but I would be the LAST person to say it would replace a pistol.The great and indeed only advantage of a pistol is that you can HAVE IT WITH YOU all the time.If you are cleaning game,using the latrine,cooking,etc. you can have your pistol.For survival type hunting Ill take the m-24 every time,but NOT without a pistol to accompany it.
Old 11-25-2003, 04:01 PM   #8
Joined: Nov 2003

Posts: 6
Supressed .22

I have used Aguila Sniper Sub Sonic 60gr. ammo with a suppressed Ruger mkII and it is super quiet.
First lets talk about sub-sonic ammo.Sub-sonic ammo travels slowerer than the speed of sound its that simple,while some ammunition manufacturers have used this term as a marketing plow to attribute mysterious powers to this type of make it more deadly and attractive to the potential customer--the marketing of the term works.There is no performance magic in low velocity,which is exactly what sub-sonic ammo is.
Here is the formula used by the USAF to determine speed of sound....break out the calculater.LOL
Temperature in F + 459=? The square root of ? X 49.06 =1128.38FPS--the speed of sound. At 70 degrees F the speed of sound is 1128.38FPS.....Try it yourself 70F +459=529. the Sq. root of 529=23 X 49.06= 1128.38FPS
The speed gets lower as temperature drops and higher as it rises.You can find it at any temperature with this formula.
The Aguila 60 gr. projectile fired from the 8 inch barrel of the integrally suppressed Ruger mkII has a muzzle velocity of 896 fps on the average.With this being said there is no sonic boom or "crack" from the bullet.The Advanced Armorment suppressor on the pistol also slows and cools the propellant gasses and eliminates nearly 100% of the muzzle flash of the pistol so what you hear is the actualy the internal hammer falling and the cycling of the bolt aginst the frame and the bullet impact with the target....which is a loud "thud" using such a heavy projectile. 60gr is heavier than most bullets fired from a .223 cal. AR15.
For a little lesson on balistics you should check out and check out the Whisper series of cartridges.The .510 Whisper is reported to launch a 750gr. Hornady at 1,040FPS with about six times the energy of the best high velocity .308's at 1,000 yards.That isn't magic-its simply ballistics.

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