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Old 12-25-2020, 03:01 PM   #1
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enlarge front jeans pocket mouth, pocket by 1"

in both directions. Nobody will even notice, much less care. If you put boot grips on an alloy .38 snub and load it with 158 gr lhp's, it will weigh 18 ozs. If you grind off the sharp corners of a Sig P938, it will weigh 15 ozs. that is the given weight, with the mag removed, which is of course cheating blatantly.

Given a barrel rechambered to 9x21, with 45 gr Split noses at 2200 fps, 500 ft l bs of energy, it's AP on level IIIA kevlar vests, is easily twice as effective as the .38 lhps, weighs 17 oz when loaded with 7 rds. The Sig's line of recoil is much lower than that of the revolver and you dont have to crank back a DA triggerr pull.

Therefore, the 9x21 sig's twice as fast for repeat hits, as such a .38 airweight snubby. It recoils like a Makarov, due to the locked breech of the Sig. Also, ,the Sig is twice as likely to go un-noticed in that front pants pocket. It will also be twice as fast to draw as any belt rig. 3x as fast as any shoulder rig, if you start hand in pocket.

With the 7 rd mag as a reload, the P938 is one sweet little pistol. It's too bad you have to wussy-load it to keep from cracking that alloy frame in a few thouand rds.However the same thing is true of the airweight snubby. THAT sorry sob punishes your hand badly with plus P 158 gr loads. Now watch Dinora come on here and lie about how he puts 10,000 such rds per year thru his.
 
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Old 12-25-2020, 04:15 PM   #2
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Or you could just buy a 13 + 1 Hellcat and a pocket holster. It fires 115, 124, and 147 bullets with a hole already in the nose. It's not called a snot nose though.
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Old 12-25-2020, 07:06 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
...plus P 158 gr loads. Now watch Dinora come on here and lie about how he puts 10,000 such rds per year thru his.
Dinora..?
 
 
Old 12-26-2020, 07:29 AM   #4
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Ground on guns, 9x21, dremeled- hacksawed bullets again, tiresome.
 
Old 12-26-2020, 08:49 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by BigBassMan View Post
Ground on guns, 9x21, dremeled- hacksawed bullets again, tiresome.
Really sad, isn't it?
 
Old 12-28-2020, 06:03 PM   #6
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Anyone actually loading 9x21 over here? I remember it as an option for countries that restricted" military" calibers...I don't recall if the factory ammo was loaded much hotter than 9x19. In fact,IIRC a couple of 9x21 chambered pistols would actually feed, fire and extract 9x19 fairly reliably if the OAL was close enough... been a while.... anyone have any current information?
 
Old 12-28-2020, 08:07 PM   #7
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9x21 was a big thing when I was shooting IPSC during the '90's. I haven't heard anyone mention it recently. I guess you could still find the brass on the internet, but your not going to get it down at the corner store.
 
Old 12-29-2020, 08:28 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
Dinora..?
Dora the explorer's brother? Maybe boati"s new imaginary friend?
 
Old 12-29-2020, 09:44 AM   #9
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I thought I remembered something about the 9x21 actually having a lower max pressure than 9x19, so I looked it up. Turns out it maxes out at 34,100 psi, a little below 9x19 and substantially below 9x19+P.

Wondering about using extra-light bullets, I ran some sample loads through QuickLoad, comparing max loadings in 9x21 vs 9x19+P. These are based on a medium 4" barrel length, but the ratios would stay the same in longer or shorter barrels, within a few percentage points.


The 9x21 load maximums:
Using a light 90-grain XTP the maximum safe load with Bullseye is 6.9 grains (34,084 psi), and runs 1529 fps; for 467 ft/lbs.

Dropping to a 70-grain bullet the max Bullseye charge goes up to 7.4 grains and gives 1728 fps; or 464 ft/lbs.

Going to an even lighter 50-grain bullet, the max Bullseye charge is 8.2 grains for 2035 fps; which is still only 460 ft/lbs.


The 9x19 maximums:
With the 90-grain bullet, the 9x19 max is 7.3 grains (37,791 psi) & get 1592 fps; for 506 ft/lbs again (same energy as the 50-grain bullet at max loading).

Working our way back up in bullet weight, with a 70-grainer, the max load of Bullseye is 7.9 grains (37,266 psi) for 1817 fps or 513 ft/lbs.

And using the uber-light 50-grain bullet, the max load is 8.7 grains of Bullseye (38,480 psi) giving 2135 fps; or 506 ft/lbs.



Simply put, in all three bullet weights the normal 9mm+P actually outperformed the oddball 9x21 caliber. And does it in a caliber that comes in guns that are readily available, has reloading brass that is readily available, load data that's readily widely available, etc. Absolutely zero functional advantage to the 9x21 over the 9x19+P as far as I can tell.
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Old 12-29-2020, 10:13 AM   #10
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In Mel's weak feeble mind there is an advantage, just the rest of the world don't know it yet, not they even want to. Heck, a 38super is better an a lot easier to find. Have more luck finding 400 CorBon in a shop than 9x21. With the shortages now, 9x19 is still available. Someone must have bull****ted him one time an he believes it.
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Old 12-30-2020, 03:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
...Given a barrel rechambered to 9x21, with 45 gr Split noses at 2200 fps, 500 ft l bs of energy...
How do you conclude that 500 ft/lbs in a P938 fast & controllable when you say 450 ft/lbs from a commander isn't?
 
Old 12-30-2020, 03:13 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
How do you conclude that 500 ft/lbs in a P938 fast & controllable when you say 450 ft/lbs from a commander isn't?

He ignores laws, including those of physics...
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