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460 Rowland

3K views 16 replies 4 participants last post by  nikto 
#1 ·
This is kind of directed to John (GK), but any comments welcomed.

You've cited the 460 several times and I just don't see the allure. Ammunition resupply would be difficult or impossible and the cartridge, while healthier than a .45 ACP, lacks the real whack of a .44 Magnum, a hot .45 Colt or a .454, all of which are more readibly available. I gotta say that I prefer a revolver to an auto, so maybe I'm letting that bias shade my thoughts.

Enlighten me.

DC
 
#2 ·
it's about hunting with a real sidearm, instead of a huge ,heavy abortion that you CALL a handgun. It's also about having 223 sp performance in a ccw pistol. I don't see any reason to bother with owning a gov't model any more, (for me). nor a lot of practice with even full power .45 ammo in the alloy commander. Once you've truly mastered the handgun, slowfire hitting is kid stuff, requiring very little in the way of live practice.

The hunting load is an 80 gr solid copper swc, at 2100 fps. The combat load is a 2 segmented, solid copper hp, 70 grs at 2300 fps from the 4" barrel, slit down the middle, from the nose almost to the base, so that it breaks into 2 full length "halves" at impact. The 2 segments then yaw/tumble, diverging from each other and have the temporary cavity destroying the tissue that is "caught' between the 2 cavities. Both bullets have large, conical base caviites. The factory ammo. or typical reloads for the Rowland, accomplish nothhing, but the recoil is too great and the gun is too big and heavy. If everyone SAYING that they "always ccw" a 1911 govt model actually DID so, California could just buy all that wasted sweat and not have a water deficit.

If you're going to have a 45 Colt swc, then all you do is poke a 1/2" hole thru the chest of a big critter. The 80 gr swc, 2100 fps, will do that, with less recoil than .45 ball ammo (from the same gun). 80 grs at 2100 fps has the same recoil as 210 grs at 800 fps.
 
#3 ·
OK, I see what you're saying, even though I don't agree. I carry a Blackhawk every day, and if I lived in California I'd sell my sweat. Or move.

The bullets you're using have a SD so low that I doubt they'd get any significant penetration, but since I don't have any like that I can't prove it.

Are you sure that the 80 grain is really a SWC? Most generally they won't reliably feed in an auto. That's the prime reason a Truncated Cone profile is more common.

Any bullet that splits (by design) is a bad idea. Neither half (or in this case, even the whole) has the mass for real penetration.

DC
 
#4 ·
if it's got a "shoulder' on it, it's by definition a swc. Hundreds of millions of 200 gr swc .45's have fed successfully thru 1911 .45's. 3x, this bullet exited the chest of a big Hereford bull. the "SD" numbers don't mean anything when your bullet doesn't have a lead core. :)

If you wanna be almost unarmed vs men, rabid animal or dog pack, ok with me. Me, I want an alloy commander, with all the goodies and the finest trigger pull that i can arrange. I want 7 hits per second on the chest at 10 ft, 750 ft lbs per hit. 5000 ft lbs, and 14 wound tracks. Due to the advantage of the larger projectiles (ie, sideways .45) and the Mach II damage (ie, temporary cavity at 2200+ fps) this is equal to a couple of 3" magnum blasts of 000, as far as damage is concerned. IF, of course, he's still standing for the full 1 second, or if you're able to keep pouring the lead into him as he goes down. that's not so unlikely, actually, if the range is 6-7 ft and you're READY to do this.
 
#5 ·
of course, this is IF I bothered to carry a belt gun at all. For many years now, I have not considered that to be an answer. I far prefer the pocket 356 TSW, given that this Split Nose bullet is so destructive and shocking, and cause belt carry is a major pita. Such a pocket 9 takes deer ok, given bait and a tree stand/blind. Elk are SUCH a big hunk of meat to have to deal with, and moose even more so, that I dont see the point anymore. If I ever need to take one or more of such critters, the AR can brain them.
 
#8 ·
Rowland case is .060" longer than the ACP, so it probably won't chamber in the SA revolver. It would be no big deal, tho, for a smith to deepen the chambers that much. The .45 Super is the same case length as the ACP brass. I sectioned some Starline Super cases and miked them at the web. No difference between them and R-P brass cases. the .460 cases, however, DID measure a few thousandths of an inch thicker at the web.
 
#10 ·
what I quoted is the factory specs. ALL .45 ACP brass is short of ACP specs, by quite a bit, actually. .010-.020". Revolver chambers have no need to allow for the buildup of crud, like auto chambers are cut to allow for, either. So it's very doubtful that the .460 brass will chamber into a normal cylinder. BUT, if they cut it for the half moon clips, there is a CHANCE that the 460 brass would work. I'd call Brownells, get past the know nothing clerks and ask a real smith. I doubt that Clark's people would admit it, if so. that would deprive them of money
 
#11 ·
That's about what I suspected,since its was relieved for the moon clips...also, most Ruger revolvers in that caliber(.45 Colt) are mentioned in Buffalo Bore type load data( Ruger only). I was wondering if the "2 caliber interchangeable opinion" could be stretched to "3 or more".
 
#12 ·
Sectional density does not overcome bullet construction. It is a major factor, but not the end all be all; it's even the primary theoretical factor. That said, a lot more goes into practice, as just with the core alone the metallurgy could negate a high SD for the purposes we care about.
 
#17 ·
it's not like you're going to find lots of rowland (or .45 super) ammo, or like there's any reason for such big revolvers in the first place,

Solid copper swc's penetrate GREAT. I put 80 gr, .45's, 2100 fps thru a big hereford bull's chest, exiting, 3x. He was killed with a head shot, a few seconds sooner, When we rolled him over, nobody believed the exit wounds. Even I was a BIT surprised by this. I knew that they were going to penetrate 20" or so, but not 30"+. :) Quite amazing for something with less momentum/recoil than .45 ACP ball ammo
 
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