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The P-64, and others..

3K views 13 replies 5 participants last post by  gripper 
#1 ·
As I posted a few years back, I bought 2 P-64's from (I think) SOG. Both were brand new. After cleaning, I fired both and was appaled by the worst DA trigger pull I have ever encountered. I thought the SA pull was too light and the recoil toomuch. Also, both grips cracked before the third magazine was fired in each. I sent both back. Maybe I was too hasty and should have tried the Wolff spring route, but actually the gun was too small for my hand, and I already owned three Makarov's,that while larger, had great trigger pulls, accuracy, and more rounds. When the CZ-82's became available for a dirt cheap price, I bought several, picked out one for a favorite back up gun, and never looked back. Although if I state this on the Makarov Forum I would expect lazer beams to come out of my screen and and fry me, I think out of the P-64, the Makarov's and the CZ-82's, the CZ is far and away better than the P-64, and even noses out the E.G. Makarov's,though I feel like a hypocrite for saying so as the Makarov's are great guns or I wouldn't still own three of them. If the P-64 pleases you, great. It just didn't work for me. My guns are NOT better than your guns; we just have different tastes.
 

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#2 ·
Lolz @ the laser beams.

The CZ are probably a way better gun.

I think the funny thing with the P64 trigger is that there isn't a wall before the shot breaks. There's nothing wrong with a silly light pull, as long as one knows where the takeup ends, which is unfortunately challenging with this piece. The reset is far enough out to make it not a safety issue with conscious handling, in my opinion. As you said, the DA is awful, and I was using it for exercise for a bit. I definitely want the aftermarket spring kit.

That really sucks your grips cracked >.<

I own it for the specific purpose of being a pocket piece when full size guns are too much of a PitA to keep equipping and locking up.
 
#3 ·
I never figured out the grips. Like I said the guns looked NIB, and the grips looked like they were in perfect position. Assembled wrong maybe? I was thinking maybe the mainspring hit something inside the grip panels. Anyway they both cracked in my hand after firing a shot. A screw overly tightened? Anyway, it bothers me.
 
#4 ·
Main thing to remember with any blowback pocket-rocket running ammo much hotter than .32 ACP-smaller the gun,bigger the "Ow!" factor at the range...
Not really a factor with a last ditch " stop that RIGHT NOW!" kind of tool,but I always felt better with a gun I was comfortable with.I am by no means a big guy,but even with days in the high 90"s(like today) I am usually able to make something I am comfortable shooting disappear on my scrawny frame....another vote for Toks,Maks and CZ's here.
I DO like the P64 though....maybe I can scare up one on a FTF among friends around here,or another EG Mak some day.
My duty gun at work is 4 inch .38 GP100-kind of overbuilt for the caliber,but a soft shooter.my duty gear is rather uncomfortable,but my CC rig to and from work is just fine-an old Uncle Mike's belt(read trouse belt) rig....I know-I'm the Clown Prince of Cheap Bastards!...so I can definitely see a role for the P64 ,once the springs are swapped out.I'd still prefer another Mak though-I seem to regard "flatness" as of more import than "shortness"by preference.Build and dress style,like individual milage may vary.
 
#5 ·
I'm curious about these 9x18mm guns. I've been a 357 snubbie BUG kind of guy for a while but I always start investigating the PPKs, Bersa 380 Thunder ect. apart from glancing at the ballistics of the round the only expereince I have is down range confiscating Makarovs. How are they in reliability, expence to operate and avalibility of parts ect?
 
#6 ·
Robustly reliable,and with the possible exception of the un modified P64,very easy to carry and shoot well under stress.Some folks bemoan the CZ82's fatter grip,but it realy is not an insurmountable obstacle to CC.Makarovs are DEFINITELY flatter,although their heel mounted mag catches require a little re-wiring of the old muscle memory.
And there ARE some interesting loads available besides surlus 9X18mm ball.
 
#7 ·
I fully concur with gripper. The Makarov's and CZ-82's are great BUG guns or primaries, if you favor a .380 persuasion, the 9X18 MM's are hotter. I have no trouble concealing a CZ-82 although the Makarov's are slimmer. The recoil of even relatively "Hot" Hollow points is pretty easily handled with either the Mak or the CZ. As far as parts go, I've been told that Numrich, Brownell's and Midway have any part you could need and CZ USA has some kind of package deal for refurbishing '82's, so I'm sure they have parts also. I like a back up that has some punch and eight rounds out of a Mak, or 12 out of an '82 will get someones attention.
 
#8 ·
Agree with gripper's assessment as well. I have a Mak and a P64, and actually like what the P64 does, just not necessarily how it does it. Even with its short barrel, it launches the now-discontinued 115-grain Silver Bear JHP at a shade over 1,000 fps; darn near 9x19 territory. But doing so from a PPK-size blowback with hard plastic grips is painful, and this from someone who loves shooting his chopped .454 revolver. :)

A lighter load would make it softer, but unavoidably 'softer' on the receiving end as well. A couple years ago I switched from the P64 with the SB-115 to an LCP with 102 golden saber. Slight downward move in power (102 grains vs 115, and 920fps vs 1025), but huge improvements in weight and concealability both.
 
#9 ·
So the 9x18mm Marakov is abouth where you would expect it between the 9mm Parabellum and 9mm Kurz…
The 9mm kurz (380 ACP ect; come to think of it I can’t remember a round with some many names but I digress) on the FBI ballistic tests only seems to get the recommended penetration on certain brands and configurations. Otherwise I’d probably own a Bersa Thunder 380. I don’t want a supped up round under ideal conditions to have minimum recommended stopping power.
I have a few reservations with the 9mm Parabellum stemming from an incident in Afghanistan where I used most a magazine of 9x19mm out of a standard M9 to little effect. Granted it was issued ball ammo.
For me we’re in the right neighborhood for power in a BUG (around 38+P). I’d like a pistol for the higher capacity.
 
#10 ·
...For me we’re in the right neighborhood for power in a BUG (around 38+P). I’d like a pistol for the higher capacity.
Fwiw, and I know this will be sacrilege to some, imo there's not a ton of difference between the calibers so much anymore. For .35-caliber small-gun choices, consider the following:

- A 110 to 125 grain bullet from 850 to 950 - .38spl (add another ~100fps or so for +p)
- A 94 to 115 grain bullet at 900 to 1060 fps - 9x18
- A 90 to 102 grain bullet at 875 to 980 fps - .380

Not saying there's no difference, just saying that to me, when fired from short-barrel guns, there's not a huge difference.


Worth perusing - some compilations of various mfrs' claimed (some real, some not) performance examples of those three calibers:

http://www.ballistics101.com/380_acp.php
http://www.ballistics101.com/38_special.php
http://alandp0.tripod.com/9x18/

My point is just this - if my pocket gun launches a .35-caliber bullet, weighing 'around' 100 grains, at 'around' 950 fps, which caliber is it? Could be any of the three.
 
#11 ·
IIRC,over at makarov.com,someone had converted a Bulgarian Makarov to .32NAA-with VERY impressive ballistic potential from a 4.2 inch barrel.I'd love. CZ82 with that option,but I can see a real potential in the P64 for that....WTH,DW....they're cheap enough you could buy a few to experiment with.
 
#12 ·
Gripper,

I looked into the .32 NAA once, as I thought it was a nifty idea. All in all, though, it doesn't do anything a 9mm does not. If it were readily available and locked breach guns were around for them I'd probably pick it over a .380 or a .32. I bet one could cook a .32 NAA up in a manner of amusing ways given a better platform, and terminal performance would probably be tangibly enhanced by a bonded core design intended for the velocity.

In all honesty, I can't do too many pointless/recreational projects anymore. Feeding the ARs is expensive and time consuming. I do, however, have some things in the work to cross my hobby into a profession at least to some extent.
 
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