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Old 11-23-2020, 07:17 AM   #1
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not more than 2 segments for combat bullets

cause the segments get too light to give you enough penetration. You do need 8" of penetration to reach the heart from the side of a big man, or thru the arm and lung of of a normal sized man The Mag Safe and Glaser loads could not meet that standard. The 15-20" penetration requirement is a crock When a man is stomping you, shoot him in the bladder/nuts the bones of his leg or under his chin. it's ridiculous to expect a controlable ccw gun to have an expanding bullet that will reach from his crotch to his heart. It's similarly ridiculous to expect expanding handgun bullets to do much of anything to a guy in a car. The civilian need not have such penetration. Cops can bring rifles to such occasions.

Dont deprive yourself of optimal stopping potential by choosing ammo that has 15" of flesh penetration . Such ammo gets that much penetration only by not expanding. Carry ball or AP-similar ammo in your spare mag and swap mags if you have to engage a bad guy in a car.
 
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Old 11-23-2020, 08:11 AM   #2
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Quantity and quality are more important in the real world over fantasy.
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Old 11-23-2020, 09:35 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
...The 15-20" penetration requirement is a crock
Again, organic gel penetration is not a direct correlation of living-flesh penetration. I've explained this to you before. Simplest way to observe that reality is in the BB calibration. On a properly made, proper-temperature block, a BB at 590fps (give or take 15fps) will penetrate approximately 3.3 inches. So that should tell you that it's nowhere near a 1-1 relationship with living flesh.

Unless you believe a walmart BB gun that's not even pumped up all the way will penetrate more than three inches into an attacker. In which case, there's probably no hope of a way to explain it.
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Old 11-23-2020, 05:48 PM   #4
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that's right. expanding bullets penetrate MORE in the chest cavity than in gel, cause they dont expand as readily. 8" of gell penetration is plenty. With hp's, when it hits the ribs or sternum ,it often doesn't expand at all, cause the nose cavity gets smashed shut.
 
Old 11-23-2020, 05:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
...8" of gell penetration is plenty.
You really believe that a defensive bullet should penetrate roughly twice the depth of a BB from a partially pumped-up Crosman?
 
Old 11-24-2020, 06:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
...8" of gell penetration is plenty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
You really believe that a defensive bullet should penetrate roughly twice the depth of a BB from a partially pumped-up Crosman?
Come on, John. You always make these pontifications, and then run away instead of defending them.

Again - you really maintain that ideal bullet penetration from a defensive firearm is roughly twice what a partially pumped-up crosman BB rifle gets?
 
Old 11-30-2020, 07:58 AM   #7
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No response John...?

Or just silently acknowledging that you were wrong, and that a defensive bullet really should penetrate more than twice what a BB does from a less-than-fully pumped up BB gun...?
 
Old 12-06-2020, 10:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
cause the segments get too light to give you enough penetration. You do need 8" of penetration to reach the heart from the side of a big man, or thru the arm and lung of of a normal sized man The Mag Safe and Glaser loads could not meet that standard. The 15-20" penetration requirement is a crock When a man is stomping you, shoot him in the bladder/nuts the bones of his leg or under his chin. it's ridiculous to expect a controlable ccw gun to have an expanding bullet that will reach from his crotch to his heart. It's similarly ridiculous to expect expanding handgun bullets to do much of anything to a guy in a car. The civilian need not have such penetration. Cops can bring rifles to such occasions.

Dont deprive yourself of optimal stopping potential by choosing ammo that has 15" of flesh penetration . Such ammo gets that much penetration only by not expanding. Carry ball or AP-similar ammo in your spare mag and swap mags if you have to engage a bad guy in a car.
not an absolute. a bullet can expand, not fragment and get a pass thru.

Also, if a man is stomping you, you aren't getting a pistol out of your pocket, which is not the best way to carry. You are limited by the geometry of the pants pocket. IWB will be easier to get to in more situations.

And you ARE the one advocating pocket carry..

Last edited by Dorobuta; 12-09-2020 at 07:29 AM.
 
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