fixing the M21 problem - Arms Locker
Arms Locker Gun Forum
Go Back   Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Gunsmithing


Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By BigBassMan
  • 1 Post By John in AR
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-10-2020, 09:28 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 1,116
fixing the M21 problem

involved drilling a bigger hole in the steel cap from the top, driving out the broken drill bit (later used it to hold the firing pin. The original pin hole is .055" ID. I just reamed out the hole (drilled holes are never fully round) made a steel plug on the lathe, cut some slots on the side of the plug, but didn't continue the slots where they'd show, epoxied the plug into the slide-cap and blued the end result. You had to really look for it to notice it, like the cross pin in the hammer of a Smith revolver. You have to know its there, or you'd swear that it's not. The polishing wheel"blends" the metal over the seams, so to speak. if and when I needed to remove the firing pin (never did) I could heat the slide a bit with a propane torch, which breaks the epoxy bond, and then drive out the retaining pin, which then would drift out the plug in the slide-cap.
 
Remove Ads
Old 11-10-2020, 09:29 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 1,116
that's the mark of the master. Everyone screws up now and then. The master knows how to fix it so that it doesn't show.
 
Old 11-10-2020, 09:41 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2015
From: North

Posts: 1,742
Only thing you are is a master of babble, nonsense, bull****, an everybody but you knows it. So why don't you just shut your mouth up before the last brain cell escapes.
BigEd likes this.
 
 
Old 11-10-2020, 01:20 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
fixing the M21 problem involved drilling a bigger hole in the steel cap from the top, driving out the broken drill bit (later used it to hold the firing pin. The original pin hole is .055" ID. I just reamed out the hole (drilled holes are never fully round) made a steel plug on the lathe, cut some slots on the side of the plug, but didn't continue the slots where they'd show, epoxied the plug into the slide-cap and blued the end result. You had to really look for it to notice it, like the cross pin in the hammer of a Smith revolver. You have to know its there, or you'd swear that it's not. The polishing wheel"blends" the metal over the seams, so to speak. if and when I needed to remove the firing pin (never did) I could heat the slide a bit with a propane torch, which breaks the epoxy bond, and then drive out the retaining pin, which then would drift out the plug in the slide-cap.
You took a gun that comes from the factory fully functional and more accurate than most, drilled into it poorly enough to embed a broken drill bit in it, welded (JB Welded..?) a steel cap on the slide that does nothing to increase reliability (because it's already 100% reliable with a lot of loads), and brag about "fixing" a well-proven design by one of the longest-running gun manufacturers in the world.


Serious question - specifically what "problems" did this solve? Seriously, what works now that didn't before?
 
Old 11-11-2020, 08:39 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 1,116
no, they are NOT 100% reliable, cause they dont have an etractor and no they are NOT even remotely accurate. The sights are almost invisible and completely non-adjustable, The weiding was done with a tig machine. What worked when I was done is I could reliably stand , unsuppported and hit 2.5" disks at 25m, one after another. You wont do anything of the kind at 10m with the issue gun. the issue gun has no slidelock for ultimate sound suppression, has a lot of overtravel in the trigger and the safety is a bit awkward to shoot. When I was done, it was very quiet indeed, was SA only, with zero overtravel in the trigger. given the nearly complete lack of quality control in today's .22 ammo, an extractor is essential. As issued, the slide is too light, blows open too easily,resulting in a LOT of noise coming out of the ejection port. i explained all this in the original post about smithing this gun. Guess you can't read?
 
Old 11-11-2020, 09:46 AM   #6
Registered User
 Garand's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
From: Canadian Badlands

Posts: 9,098
Geez am I glad I'm happy with my Beretta M71!
 
Old 11-11-2020, 10:12 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
no, they are NOT 100% reliable, cause they dont have an etractor and no they are NOT even remotely accurate.
People who actually shoot them disagree:

Guns.com:
Quote:
The Bobcat, like many of the other small Berettas, is a subcompact pistol. It has the ideal size and shape for concealed carry gun, on top of a reliable performance...

...The Bobcat is a well made gun with an excellent fit and finish, something you would expect from Beretta. Accuracy is fine with these guns because its design keeps the barrel solidly mounted to the frame in usual operation.
https://www.guns.com/news/review/gun...tta-21a-bobcat

The Truth About Guns:
Quote:
Accuracy: In the world of pocket guns, the Bobcat is a real shooter. The inherent lack of recoil of 22 LR, the beefiness of the grips, and a light single-action trigger makes the Bobcat easy to shoot.

...Surprisingly accurate gun even at 25 metres with a bit of practice.

...the Bobcat was more reliable than I expected. Aside from the underpowered Federal Target loads, I had only two malfunctions—a CCI Stinger and a Winchester Western round that failed to eject once the gun got past the two hundred round mark in a range session.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gu...-bobcat-22-lr/

GunCarrier.com:
Quote:
This user-friendly pocket pistol will surprise you with its accuracy and reliability!

...You’ll be surprised as much as I am when shooting this Beretta model pistol within a 10-yard distance; the accuracy is simply exceptional. It’s definitely one of the most reliable small firearms shooters can use."
https://guncarrier.com/beretta-21a-b...sed-see-below/

--------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
...As issued, the slide is too light, blows open too easily,resulting in a LOT of noise coming out of the ejection port. i explained all this in the original post about smithing this gun. Guess you can't read?
I can read fine. You never mentioned ejection pop, in this thread or the other one.

The original post of this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
fixing the M21 problem involved drilling a bigger hole in the steel cap from the top, driving out the broken drill bit (later used it to hold the firing pin. The original pin hole is .055" ID. I just reamed out the hole (drilled holes are never fully round) made a steel plug on the lathe, cut some slots on the side of the plug, but didn't continue the slots where they'd show, epoxied the plug into the slide-cap and blued the end result. You had to really look for it to notice it, like the cross pin in the hammer of a Smith revolver. You have to know its there, or you'd swear that it's not. The polishing wheel"blends" the metal over the seams, so to speak. if and when I needed to remove the firing pin (never did) I could heat the slide a bit with a propane torch, which breaks the epoxy bond, and then drive out the retaining pin, which then would drift out the plug in the slide-cap.
The original post of the other M21 'gunsmithing' thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
m21 Beretta needs steel cap added to the slide so that you have the needed metal to fit a dovetailed rear sight and the extractor. a vertical pin thru the slide retains the extractor. It never occured to me that drilling that out from underneath, thru the "cap' fo metal that I added to the slide, would cause problems. The hole size is .055". i just drilled it out 1/16" inch, but when the drill bit went thru the slide and hit the curved inside of the piece of tubng that I'd added, the drill bit of course was deflected and broke. It also broke at the shank, right fluse with the slide.

I had to grind a hole in the cap, drive out the broken bit, weld up the hole, and be a lot more careful, with much better bits and lots of WD-40, higher RPM on the drill press, etc, to get that hole drilled in that steel cap. The parts that i had dreaded, fitting the extractor, hardening it, hardening the threads on the extended barrel and the threat protector, that went off without a hitch. What i SHOULD have done was drill the hole into the cap from underneath, having ground a flat spot on it, and put a pin thru the slide and the cap, and THEN tig-welded all around the 4 sides of the cap.



The barrel was then no longer a tip up, due to the extractor notch I had to put into its rear end. So I pinned down the barrel and convered the barrel-release lever into a slide-lock. to hold the slide shut for maximum suppressive effect. When you sprayed the guts of the can with WD-40 and then squrted in water, locked the slide shut, and wrapped tape around the can so that it didn't "ring") it was BB gun quiet. It needed the baffled cleaned every 100 rds. Not bad in a 15 oz, 9" long gun, that still grouped 2" at 25m. :-) A big part of that was bending the trigger into a more-acute curve, getting rid of the overtravel.

The DA trigger option went with the overtravel, but that's ok. I preferred the speed safety lever and cocked and locked carry anyway. I put the luminous front sight on the can and the rear of the slide, and the sight that I dovetailed into the thread protector was just plain blued steel. if I needed the night sights, I'd also need the can. and the night sight is just a distraction for real precision work in daylight.

I think wifey will one day be marketing such M21's to the oil sheiks and similar folks in S america and Europe. There's never been anything like it and a lot of bets can be won with such a gun. if you've got good eyesight and can really shoot.
Point out any mention of excessive ejection port noise due to light slide weight. Please. Drugs can play havoc with memory and perception; may be time for a dosage adjustment.

{edited to use simpler words for the cognitive-challenged among us}
Dorobuta likes this.

Last edited by John in AR; 11-11-2020 at 10:49 AM.
 
Reply

  Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Gunsmithing


Thread Tools
Display Modes






Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2003 - 2011 Arms Locker. All rights reserved.