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Old 09-11-2020, 03:21 PM   #1
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Funny LEOSA Drill

I went through the course today, pretty much the same course of fire and drills, Although I had to travel almost 100 miles this time. What was funny was the last part of the course is four rounds fired from any position at 25 yards. They were just running three of us through the course at a time. After I shot my four rounds I looked to my left and saw the man next to my old partner was shooting the 25 yarder from the PRONE position. The line Coach was trying to contain himself and not doing a very good job of it. The man was a big heavy got and had a heck of a time getting back up. Maybe he was trained that way, but I've never seen it.
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Old 09-12-2020, 07:02 AM   #2
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Joined: Mar 2017
From: Arkansas

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For some 25yds is a long shot for some with a pistol.

Some of the stuff I've seen at public ranges. Yeesh!

I've seen that
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Old 09-22-2020, 03:28 PM   #3
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25 yds a ridiculously long shot for anyone, if you're being shot at, have no ear protection and are standing, fully exposed. If you've got ear protection, cover and a braced firing position, and especially if he's shooting at somebody else or unaware of your (armed) presence, sure, you can take your time and hit him. If he's wearing armor, tho, you'll be in big trouble. especially if he's got a longarm. Going prone is smarter than standing there MISSING constantly, when is what you WILL do when under fire and have no ear protections.

At least being prone is making a smaller target of you. When you study the real deal performance of guys in pistol fights, they miss the vitals half of the time at 10 FEET. So wtf do you "think" is going to happen at 7x that distance, hmmm? :-) This is guys who in practice, CAN keep them all in the chest at 25m., too. They've proven it many times, on qualifacation ranges. Prone's problem is that unless the guy is on the same level as you, you'll have to raise your hands off the ground. If it's on pavement, richochets ad frags run into you.

Prone is a rifleman's position. Sitting/reclining, or fetal is better for the pistol. Dont train yourself to fling yourself down, your head at his feet, as that's the normal distance for a gun fight. Instead, better train yourself to fling yourself backwards, and brace the pistol between your knees or your thighs for long range engagements. This gets your head back away from knives and clubs, and it puts your legs between your face and those fragments and ricochets. Dropping to both knees, on pavement, is likely to hurt you worse than his bullet would have. . Bending your knees and falling back on your butt, is much less likely to do so. I can average 1.7 seconds, with a speed rig, falling back as I draw and hit the chest at 10 yds. :-) If the range is 10 ft, the times average more like 1.3 seconds and I fire one handed, leaning my legs to one side, out of the way of the bullets. The problem for me, really, is to NOT do what I was taught to do with judo breakfalls, cause that "rocks" my legs-feet up into the line of fire.

It was very common, for many years, for the SWPL masters to go to prone for the 2.5 second, 25 yd stages. especially if there was going to be more than one shot fired per engagement. Buck Toddy used to do so for the 1.5 second, 10 yd stages. you'd be firing over his head, as he killed you.
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Last edited by boati; 09-22-2020 at 03:42 PM.
Old 09-23-2020, 10:25 AM   #4
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If 25 yards is so ridiculous I wonder why it's taught by every LEO Instructor I've ever encountered. After over 40 years without shooting a handgun I know you couldn't make any shots even close to 75 feet, but others have no difficulty with 25 yards and farther. You have always bragged about your skill at 3 to 10 feet so you seem to think that defensive shooting is always going to be close. You are wrong. In most cases, but certainly not all, shooting in your defense maybe that close but what if it's not? Train for 25 yards and ten or fifteen yards is easy. You have had no training at all in over four decades but of course your a keyboard expert. Your airsoft games aren't shooting training. Of course you don't really own an airsoft pistol so even that argument is moot.

Last edited by Terry G; 09-23-2020 at 10:28 AM.
Old 09-23-2020, 12:46 PM   #5
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From: Central Arkansas

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Imo, if someone needs to go prone to make a 25-yard shot, that's a weakness that should be worked on. If someone simply chooses to because they have time to do so, I can't fault them for that. I wouldn't use normal prone with a pistol regardless, but to each his own.

On distances involved in defensive situations, it's usually short, but not always. I remember one article about a cop who (with a pistol) shot an active shooter at something like 140 yards, ending things with one shot.

Hickok defended himself against a guy who started shooting at him from 70-75 yards (and who missed his first shot), killing the guy with one shot from his cap & ball revolver at that distance.

IIRC, the Air Force Base shooting rampage (muslim officer, don't remember his name) was ended by a guy with a pistol at 60-70 yards - while the shooter still had a rifle.

So while rare, it's still a recurring thing. Self-defense situations themselves are rare, so rarity would be a silly reason to ignore the possibility offhand.
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:48 PM   #6
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A side note: Do you always stand around corners or walk the streets with hearing protection on? You mention it all the time. Got a wee bitty problem with noise?
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Old 09-25-2020, 06:28 AM   #7
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From: Canadian Badlands

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Keep in mind that in Melvin's "reality", your opponent can hit (occasionally) at 7 yds or less. Everyone else's reality is generally more open minded.

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