only the very best, like Audie Murphy - Arms Locker
Arms Locker Gun Forum
Go Back   Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Gun Talk


Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By Garand
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-02-2020, 05:41 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 683
only the very best, like Audie Murphy

have ever proven that they could reliably hit the chest with a pistol, while personally being shot-at, at 25m. The head is about 3x as hard to hit as the chest. So, if you are using cover properly (ie, not exposed more than about 1 second, never popping out at the same place twice) only a luck shot will hit you at 8m. John Farnum was teaching that fact 40 years ago. A laterally moving man is almost impossible for the moderately trained to untrained man to hit with a pistol at 25m, even with ear protection, good light, etc. So the thing to do, if you can run and/or dive for cover and the enemy handgunner is say, 20m or more away, that's what you should be doing, not standing there, fully exposed, missing repeatedly cause you aint got any ear protection.

The top guys in IPSC and IDPA fire 50k rds or more per year. That's $10,000 worth of ammo. and wears out a helluva lot of gun parts. It's also hundreds of hours on the range, maybe a long commute to and from the range, and for many, a hefty range fee. Shooting a lot of matches means motel bills and entry fees, too. So you're talking 20k a year to be a top hand, not counting your time. Say it's 1000 hours per year to do all that. Since it's overtime and a lot of people resent having to work overime, that's probably another 20k a year worth of time? Who could afford to do all that if it was not their paid job?

So I'll settle for being only 90% as good as they are, and only to 15m for chest hits, or 5m for heads. and I dont regard open wear practice or competition to mean anything, unless you DO carry that way and do use the gun and rig you'd normally wear. Make people use realistic CCW (ie, under a shirt) with a 20 oz gun, 7" long or less, and things change radically. :-)Make them do it without ear protection and things change a LOT more radically, too. That's another 20% off what the top hands can do, right there, for repeat hits or other targets. This is without considering the loss of .30 second ccw draw and hit time as vs openly worn speed rig time.

If you can get to cover, you can get ear plugs in place at least as fast as anyone can speed load a ccw revolver, from a ccw speedload carrier., ie, 3-4 seconds. Since most people consider a revolver to be ok if you have cover, I say that it's feasible to have ear protection, if you carry it religously, the squeeze to open case in your pocket, with a lanyard to access it swiftly. You dont have to take your gun out of commission to install ear plugs as you would to reload a revolver.

So why bother with practicing more accuracy than 10" disks at 15yds, with actual carry guns from ccw, or head shots, beyond 5m at all ? Keep such baloney as less than 10% of your practice. Make at least 1/4 of your practice at arm's length and in the dark, cause that's the reality of civilian self defense. The mix of ranges in between those extremes should lean heavily to ranges inside 5 yds, and quite a bit of it inside 10 ft, too. One handed fire should definitely be part of it, 20% or so, but the weak hand stuff should be 10% or less. You'll probably not survive having to do that, cause you wont have any help to distract your attacker, the way cops often do.

TGO said that he never bothered to look at his sights for 10" disks at 10 yds and less. As my eyes age, I notice that if I actually SEE the sights, in time to correct my aim, it slows me down a LOT, as in .40 second.or more. I am not willing to give each of my enemies a "free" extra 2 shots at me, so point shooting is where it's at, for shots at torsos at less than 20 ft. A 2 handed, eye level point shot, tho, that's been practiced literally a million x in dryfire and 200,000 times with live fire, half of it .22lr conversion units.

With airsoft a vacumn cleaner and a wife who works long hours, you can sit, lay, kneel, squat, all sorts of awkward positions and angles and learn to hit at extreme speed, quite reliably with point shots. inside the typical room. ie, 12 ft and less, even if the position is much too slow and awkward to use both hands. Indeed, you might well be using one hand to keep yourself from falling out of bed, turning a wall-mounted light on or off, using a flashlight, opening or closing a door, moving a loved one out of the way, blocking a blow or a thrown object.

MOVING as you fire , especially laterally. is something you should practice and if the range is 5m or less, and you're on your feet, with a fully exposed enemy, a quite high percentage of hits can be achieved, at very high speeds. :-) Very few places are going to let you practice such things with live ammo. I've shot the mexican defense course several times and seen MANY people unable to hit 18"x24" torsos with any reliability at 10m, even tho they had 5 seconds to move laterally a mere 20 ft, and hit 6 such targets. It's a walk, actually. If you really go for it, 20 ft is 1.5 seconds. Nobody who tried such hit much of anything, tho.

Ed Mcgivern thought it imporant that you be able to dive prone as you draw and roll over and over, while shooting what would be straight up overhead of you were vertical. I've found that doing so slows down your hitting a lot and almost noplace is safe to do live fire in such a manner. It causes your bullets to go over the berm. Also,quite often, in realistic encounters, diving prone puts your head where your enemy can stomp on it. Prone is for riflemen.

For the pistol, it makes more sense to fall backwards, getting your head and chest out of reach of knives and clubs, enabling your feet to be used to fend off such attackers, and "buying" you time and space in which to draw and fire. However, such live practice requires judo breakfall training, or you're likely to hurt yourself badly when you go down, maybe even jar your pistol out of your hand. Also if you let your feet-legs rock up into the air, as a judoka would normally do, you're likely to shoot yourself in the foot or leg. So it becomes advisable to do a side fall as you draw and then fire one handed.
 
Remove Ads
Old 06-03-2020, 06:24 AM   #2
Registered User
 Garand's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2004
From: Canadian Badlands

Posts: 8,815
IPSC is not reality, it is a game, nothing else. It is my understanding that PAID IPSC shooters expend 4 to 6 times the ammo that you think on an average year practicing for the GAME.
BigEd likes this.
 
Reply

  Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Gun Talk


Thread Tools
Display Modes






Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2003 - 2011 Arms Locker. All rights reserved.