A 9X18 JD?? - Arms Locker
Arms Locker Gun Forum
Go Back   Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Gun Talk


Like Tree9Likes
  • 1 Post By boati
  • 1 Post By Terry G
  • 1 Post By Dorobuta
  • 1 Post By John in AR
  • 2 Post By Terry G
  • 2 Post By BigEd
  • 1 Post By BigEd
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-31-2020, 09:28 AM   #1
Registered User
 Terry G's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004

Posts: 4,899
A 9X18 JD??

What is a this cartridge? I've never heard of it. I have six handguns that fire the 9X18 MM round and have fired every kind of ammunition through them I thought was available. I'm missing something? A 9X18 Super?
Attached Thumbnails
A 9X18 JD??-img_1081.jpg   A 9X18 JD??-img_1296.jpg  
 
Remove Ads
Old 03-31-2020, 02:13 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2003
From: nashua nh

Posts: 2,663
The Czechs loaded BOTH their 7.62x25 and 9x18 mm service loadings a bit hotter than the warm Soviet standard when they were pressured into adopting the 7.62x24,7.62x39 and the 9x18.
There was a CZ82 SPECIFIC loading with a black coated bullet featuring a sintered iron core. I don't know-have you any photo of the JD loading to post? It might be that or some limited run idea that never took off ie 9mmUltra/Super Police
 
Old 03-31-2020, 02:14 PM   #3
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2003
From: nashua nh

Posts: 2,663
https://www.jdfirearms.com/products/...1815034027-843
Buffalo Bore Ammunition 9x18 Makarov +P 34B/20 | J&D FIREARMS
 
 
Old 03-31-2020, 02:14 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2003
From: nashua nh

Posts: 2,663
Is this it?
 
Old 03-31-2020, 02:15 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2003
From: nashua nh

Posts: 2,663
I used to have several cases of that. I am down to 500 rounds
 
Old 03-31-2020, 07:51 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 603
It's a wildcat, devised by me and a guy who used to post as "Bill Clo". It's as shortened .38 super case, usable in a locked breech 380, so as to gain as much powder space as possible, to go with the big conical base cavity in the 45 gr Split Nose .36 bore bullet. The goal was 1900 fps, but 1850 proved to be about all you can get and some barrels only deliver 1800 fps. Still, that's enough to cause the pre-segmented bullet to break in half and create two diverging wound channels. But it's not AP and you dont get the Mach II effect of overlapping temporary gas cavities being able to destroy vital organ tissue that is not actually touched by the full-length, unstable, hard, sharp-cornered bullet segments. Still, it's 350+ ft lbs, not bad in a true pocket gun.
gripper likes this.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 09:38 AM   #7
Registered User
 Terry G's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004

Posts: 4,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
It's a wildcat, devised by me and a guy who used to post as "Bill Clo". It's as shortened .38 super case, usable in a locked breech 380, so as to gain as much powder space as possible, to go with the big conical base cavity in the 45 gr Split Nose .36 bore bullet. The goal was 1900 fps, but 1850 proved to be about all you can get and some barrels only deliver 1800 fps. Still, that's enough to cause the pre-segmented bullet to break in half and create two diverging wound channels. But it's not AP and you dont get the Mach II effect of overlapping temporary gas cavities being able to destroy vital organ tissue that is not actually touched by the full-length, unstable, hard, sharp-cornered bullet segments. Still, it's 350+ ft lbs, not bad in a true pocket gun.
I see now. You invented it hence the JD. What pistols did you fire it in? I'm curious. How about posting a picture of this load? Both the Makarov and the CZ82 are a bit heavy for pocket gun's, but they could be used that way.
gripper likes this.
 
Old 04-01-2020, 06:28 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2017
From: Arkansas

Posts: 259
Metric designation for .380 is 9x17mm ....hmmmm.
 
Old 04-02-2020, 05:19 AM   #9
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2019

Posts: 333
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd View Post
Metric designation for .380 is 9x17mm ....hmmmm.
The 9mm Makarov is 9 x 18
gripper likes this.
 
Old 04-02-2020, 07:06 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 5,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
It's a wildcat, devised by me and a guy who used to post as "Bill Clo". It's as shortened .38 super case, usable in a locked breech 380, so as to gain as much powder space as possible...
I thought this sounded familiar:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
re-chamber locked breech 380 to 9x18 JB

the latter is a combine invention by me and "bill clo" It uses shortened .38 super cases, leaving them 1 mm longer than the 380, making for a bit more powder space, and thus, safe, higher velocity...
He used to call it a '9x18JB' ostensibly for "John" and "Bill", not 'JD' for "John Davis". You'd think an inventor would remember the name of his invention...

That said, there's other problems. Since these have to feed from the same magazine as the host .380 round, extending the case doesn't let you extend the cartridge OAL; just won't fit into the magazine if you do. So if we're stuck with the same outer OAL, (if the concept were valid to begin with) just using a hollowbase bullet would inherently gain you the same interior space without the need for extending of length of the outer case anyway.

Shouldn't be a problem, as these non-existent hollowbased splitnose wonder bullets are allegedly longer than their diameter is wide, so there'd be more than enough length to seat securely without needing a 1mm longer case.

Basically, I don't believe it exists. And if it did exist, the same thing could still be accomplished by using the added internal space of the hollowbase itself. But the kicker is that reaming out the chamber of a .380 barrel another millimeter deeper simply doesn't give some magical leeway to load a .380 to 9mm+P power levels. Laws of physics - they apply whether we find them inconvenient or not.
gripper likes this.
 
Old 04-02-2020, 03:26 PM   #11
Registered User
 Terry G's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004

Posts: 4,899
So all this is another Melvin fantasy? What a shock! Come to think of it, why would you go to all this trouble? Be happy with a .380, 9X18 MM, or buy a 9X19 MM pocket gun.
Attached Thumbnails
A 9X18 JD??-lcp-ii.jpg   A 9X18 JD??-img_1081.jpg   A 9X18 JD??-img_3704.jpg  
gripper and BigBassMan like this.
 
Old 04-02-2020, 11:39 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2017
From: Arkansas

Posts: 259
Should be 9x18PD as in Pipe Dream (crack or hash).
gripper and BigBassMan like this.
 
Old 04-05-2020, 09:15 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Joined: Mar 2017
From: Arkansas

Posts: 259
And also if all this effort is to get higher velocity out of a .380 chamberingwhich again is aka 9x17 unless you have a sloppy chamber you just might end up upping the chamber pressure. Fantasy hollow base bullets and "locked breach" or not.
gripper likes this.
 
Old 04-09-2020, 04:16 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2003
From: nashua nh

Posts: 2,663
Still, seeing as I have and regularly use/carry/shoot four pistols in 9x18, I am genuinely curious as to any experiments with or relating to the 9x18 mm case/cartridge and whether such modification to a suitably strong pistol (CZ82 or resprung Makarov PM?) could be feasible.... maybe something like the old Ackley Improved cartridge developments back from in the 1980s and 1990s where, with a suitably recut chamber one could (it example 30/30 Ackley Improved) fire the original/parent case in the recut chamber as well as the Improved-and ALSO fire form the parent case brass into the Improved confirmation??
Admittedly I run everything from standard ball(various sources)to the Buffalo Bore type loadings so I am always curious
 
Old 04-09-2020, 04:43 PM   #15
Registered User
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: USA

Posts: 603
the blow back design of the Makarov is the limiting factor, not the cartridge. The makarov case tapers a lot. it's not feasible to use with 380 barrels and breechfaces. I wouldn't have bothered with shortening 38 super cases if just using makarov rounds would work. Give me a little credit.
 
Old 04-10-2020, 02:39 PM   #16
Registered User
 
Joined: Oct 2003
From: nashua nh

Posts: 2,663
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by boati View Post
the blow back design of the Makarov is the limiting factor, not the cartridge. The makarov case tapers a lot. it's not feasible to use with 380 barrels and breechfaces. I wouldn't have bothered with shortening 38 super cases if just using makarov rounds would work. Give me a little credit.
Makarov case is a bit more of a straight walled case than the 9x17 or 9x19. And yes, I know it's a blowback,as is the CZ82.
What I was thinking about was any potential to further enhance performance (more so than the Russian PMM High Impulse efforts,the hotter CZ loadings and the Buffalo Bore stuff)by some chamber cut and (by extension case fireforming) without completely abandoning the design.
To Be Fair,when there's been" 3/4 scale.380's 1911 design efforts" I was also curious about the locked breech efforts,and whether or not such a design was feasible to make a 9x18 barrel.
My question (and wandering brainstorm)on the subject is merely this: How much could the existing case design in a standard PM or CZ82(perhaps,as I said with idea of the Ackley type case/chamber altering)be further enhanced? Not expecting to turn something useful within the" bad breath range to 15 -20 yards as needed" into a pocket rifle doubling as an anti tank weapon :-)
But I am always interested in furtherance of possibilities. Even as a thought exercise or for research purposes
 
Reply

  Arms Locker > Arms Locker > Gun Talk


Thread Tools
Display Modes






Powered by vBulletin 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2003 - 2011 Arms Locker. All rights reserved.