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Old 03-15-2008, 02:02 PM   #41
 
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Originally Posted by SurviveNthrive View Post
You guys in the People's RepubliK can't have .50's even????
Am I wrong or you have the Terminator to thank for that?
 
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Old 03-15-2008, 02:23 PM   #42
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorge_Banner View Post
Great. My memory is not what it used to be. In any case, there's nothing esoteric about it. The idea and plans are not difficult to find.

What I wanted to talk about is that having access to shotgun ammo but no firearm one can easily build a working one-shot out of tubing. They are called "pipe guns", "tumberas" (South America), "zip" guns, "homemade shotguns" and probably many other local names.

You need two tubes, one of slightly larger diameter than the other that can work telescopically. In the smaller one you put a shell. The diameter has to be so as to impede the shell from sliding all the way inside, but retain it as a shotgun does. You close one end of the bigger tube and add a nail to act as striker. Then all that remains is to slam the smaller tube inside the bigger one.

There are several nice things about an outfit like this. (1) you can keep it disassembled and all you have is some tubing; nothing that would attract unwanted attention even under scrutiny. (2) it assembles easy and fast. I would say about five seconds. (3) in a static situation you can have a dozen or two and that's some firepower and if you have assistance, they can reload while you shoot. (4) you can make them short.

A little wood can provide a manner of stock if need be.

With time you can implement more complicated systems with trigger and other niceties but then deniability goes out the window.

They might seem like something out of a cartoon but once you see them in action, they are not much different from a standard shotgun and do the job just as deadly. To the target, there's not much difference.

Have a look here.
Reminds me of the "Bang Sticks" we used to use to dispense sharks while SCUBA diving. It was about a six foot tube that held a 12 gauge shell loaded with 00Buck. When you jabbed the shark with it it went BANG and the shark went bye bye. Respectfully.---OS
 
Old 03-15-2008, 03:09 PM   #43
 
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Originally Posted by Old Snort View Post
Reminds me of the "Bang Sticks" we used to use to dispense sharks while SCUBA diving. It was about a six foot tube that held a 12 gauge shell loaded with 00Buck. When you jabbed the shark with it it went BANG and the shark went bye bye. Respectfully.---OS
Never seen shark sticks with 12 ga shells. I have seen them with a device that holds a 7.62 rifle round, but in the tip, with almost no more than a couple of inches of barrel. Don't the 12 ga shells get wet?
 
 
Old 03-15-2008, 03:48 PM   #44
 
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Originally Posted by Jorge_Banner View Post
Never seen shark sticks with 12 ga shells. I have seen them with a device that holds a 7.62 rifle round, but in the tip, with almost no more than a couple of inches of barrel. Don't the 12 ga shells get wet?
Yes, they did get wet but that did not prevent them from firing. They were plastic shells. And, yes they were held near the end of the stick. I am not sure of their exact construction since I never owned one. I never saw or heard of one that used a rifle round. No reason that would not work but it seems that a dose of 00buck would be more effective. Respectfully.---OS
 
Old 03-15-2008, 04:08 PM   #45
 
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Originally Posted by Old Snort View Post
Yes, they did get wet but that did not prevent them from firing. They were plastic shells. And, yes they were held near the end of the stick. I am not sure of their exact construction since I never owned one. I never saw or heard of one that used a rifle round. No reason that would not work but it seems that a dose of 00buck would be more effective. Respectfully.---OS
Well placed, the rifle rounds did the sharks in, in about one second.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 08:22 PM   #46
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I saw a show several years ago about pot growers fabricating 12 GA. "claymore mines" to protect their crops. Basically a pipe (3/4" rigid, IIRC) about 3-4" long tack welded to a stake with a pipe plug in the back. A hole drilled center of the plug with a spring loaded, external firing pin (nail or similar) and a simple trigger mechanism attached to a tripwire. The shell rim would drop into the pipe coupling and seat on the edge of the pipe itself. The plug would lock the shell in place. The threads were strong enough to hold when the thing fired. The DEA spokesman in the piece was saying the shot dispersed wide and quick, making what is essentially a shrapnel cloud. The things are supposed to be flat out nasty at close range.

Plans for the improvised pipe shotguns were published in The Anarchist's Cookbook (out of print, published by Palladin Press). The directions included pipe sizing for 12 GA., single shot shoulder arms and pistols. This included a suggestion to lash hand carved wooden stocks or hand grips to them. I do not believe directions were included for trigger mechanisms.

I saw a post on driving a screw into a round nose bullet and using a grinder to reform the bullet tip on another forum. Personally, I think it would be a terrible idea to grind steel on a power grinder when attached to live ammo. I would think that such an act would give you really screwy ballistics too. Wierd bullet drops and unbalanced spin that would cause a bullet to tumble and go off course.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 08:53 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by cutter View Post
I saw a show several years ago about pot growers fabricating 12 GA. "claymore mines" to protect their crops. Basically a pipe (3/4" rigid, IIRC) about 3-4" long tack welded to a stake with a pipe plug in the back. A hole drilled center of the plug with a spring loaded, external firing pin (nail or similar) and a simple trigger mechanism attached to a tripwire. The shell rim would drop into the pipe coupling and seat on the edge of the pipe itself. The plug would lock the shell in place. The threads were strong enough to hold when the thing fired. The DEA spokesman in the piece was saying the shot dispersed wide and quick, making what is essentially a shrapnel cloud. The things are supposed to be flat out nasty at close range.
That really does sound quite nasty. Unlike the rattrap shot shell booby trap that I think it utterly worthless, that set up sounds quite perfect for its intended use. Nothing I would want to come across for sure.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 09:36 PM   #48
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They would probably be shot out in 3 or 4 uses, but you only would really need them for 1. If I think as an ambusher instead of a law abiding citizen, the way to use these would be to put them where "uninvited guests" would be likely to be. If you knew multiple enemies would be coming from a given direction through a given place, link several of these devices to a single tripwire to yield a kill zone to envelope the whole unit. It wouldn't work on enemies trained and operating at milspec level, but on your garden variety of looter they would be devestating.

It is truly amazing (and frightening) what you can do with stuff from Home Depot, the corner drugstore, the local grocery, and a little imagination. Hell, look what the VC did in Viet Nam with discarded American food containers, batteries, comm wire, and dud munitions. That does not even get into what they did with shovels, bamboo, vine rope, and poop. There is something to be said for being creative.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 10:14 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by cutter View Post
They would probably be shot out in 3 or 4 uses, but you only would really need them for 1. If I think as an ambusher instead of a law abiding citizen, the way to use these would be to put them where "uninvited guests" would be likely to be. If you knew multiple enemies would be coming from a given direction through a given place, link several of these devices to a single tripwire to yield a kill zone to envelope the whole unit. It wouldn't work on enemies trained and operating at milspec level, but on your garden variety of looter they would be devestating.

It is truly amazing (and frightening) what you can do with stuff from Home Depot, the corner drugstore, the local grocery, and a little imagination. Hell, look what the VC did in Viet Nam with discarded American food containers, batteries, comm wire, and dud munitions. That does not even get into what they did with shovels, bamboo, vine rope, and poop. There is something to be said for being creative.
Creative and ruthless.

My father told me a story some time ago (so I may get it a little mixed up) about being in Vietnam and how the Asian kids would come by to sell the GI's little candles so they could write home when there was no power, etc. Only...sometimes they were candles and sometimes they were made with explosives. So, the soldiers had to roll the dice if they wanted to see to write and read letters.

Some of you who were there may know if that story holds any water. I was quite young when I heard it. My memory may be a little hazy and I don't really want to bring it back up to my father for clarification. He still gets a little freaked out (or at least mentions the similarities) when we go into the wet, green Appalachian mountains that remind him of back there.
 
Old 03-15-2008, 11:21 PM   #50
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Dad was 17th Cav in country in '67-'68, Plei Kieu among other places. He spoke to me about his time in country only one time. I shall never forget the haunted look in his eyes. I have never brought it up since. It's been 40 years since he was there and still carries the demons. War may well be the price we pay for freedom, but for my Countrymen and Countrywomen under arms, I could sure do with less of it. I was 14 years old when he spoke to me about his time in Viet Nam. He was honest and vivid (nobody could lie that good, not even Gunkid) in our conversation. He held nothing back from me so far as I could tell. I was 10 foot tall, bullet proof, and fearless like every other 14 year old boy. I didn't sleep right for a week and was haunted by his words for months. I am 37 now and it still sends a chill down my spine to remember that talk.

I will give the VC and NVA credit. They were heartless, vicious SOB's, but they knew how to wage a war. Of course, if we had waged an endless war against all comers for decades on our own turf, we would too. I think that was their greatest strength. They had nowhere to retreat to if they lost and so had a greater motivation than we did to win that war at any cost. Our boys wanted to live to go home and had a safe home to go to. That does not in any way detract from their valor, service, or sacrifice. It just shows the normal trait of self preservation.
 
Old 03-16-2008, 09:23 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter View Post
I saw a show several years ago about pot growers fabricating 12 GA. "claymore mines" to protect their crops. Basically a pipe (3/4" rigid, IIRC) about 3-4" long tack welded to a stake with a pipe plug in the back. A hole drilled center of the plug with a spring loaded, external firing pin (nail or similar) and a simple trigger mechanism attached to a tripwire. The shell rim would drop into the pipe coupling and seat on the edge of the pipe itself. The plug would lock the shell in place. The threads were strong enough to hold when the thing fired. The DEA spokesman in the piece was saying the shot dispersed wide and quick, making what is essentially a shrapnel cloud. The things are supposed to be flat out nasty at close range.
They are SELLING something kind of similar here:
http://www.campingsurvival.com/12gabosesy.html
 
Old 03-16-2008, 09:35 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter View Post
I saw a show several years ago about pot growers fabricating 12 GA. "claymore mines" to protect their crops. Basically a pipe (3/4" rigid, IIRC) about 3-4" long tack welded to a stake with a pipe plug in the back. A hole drilled center of the plug with a spring loaded, external firing pin (nail or similar) and a simple trigger mechanism attached to a tripwire. The shell rim would drop into the pipe coupling and seat on the edge of the pipe itself. The plug would lock the shell in place. The threads were strong enough to hold when the thing fired. The DEA spokesman in the piece was saying the shot dispersed wide and quick, making what is essentially a shrapnel cloud. The things are supposed to be flat out nasty at close range.
Yeah, the problem with these booby traps is that many of those pot gardens are on public lands so the DEA can't just go after the land owner. Which means people taking a hike through a national forest or park area could trip one of these nasty things. Those SOBs should be just shot down like rabid dogs for doing something like that.
 
Old 03-16-2008, 09:45 AM   #53
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Yeah, the problem with these booby traps is that many of those pot gardens are on public lands so the DEA can't just go after the land owner. Which means people taking a hike through a national forest or park area could trip one of these nasty things. Those SOBs should be just shot down like rabid dogs for doing something like that.
Yep. Agree.

No matter the cause or reason, right or wrong, there is no reason why average people should get pulled into the mix.
 
Old 03-16-2008, 09:47 AM   #54
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I agree but can't fault the pot growers for their choice of garden spots. The Government is way over the line in confiscating someone's land just because pot happens to be grown on it. If a neighbor plants pot on a remote part of your land and the Feds find it, you lose your farm. Forget the fact that you didn't know it was there. Forget that your criminal record is almost as clean as God's. You hold the deed, you lose your land, no recourse; even if you are not convicted of any involvement in the crime. Now if the landowner is satisfactorily connected to the crime, I say shoot them and take their land.

DEA is making enemies of decent people who believe in their mission and would help them otherwise.

BTW, I agree completely that it should be open season on growers and that maybe a bounty would be a good use of tax money. It would get the job done and save on prosecution costs.
 
Old 12-06-2011, 04:10 PM   #55
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Still get a good laugh out of this ;-)
 
Old 02-16-2012, 12:31 AM   #56
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anything affect government law will be forbiden,
 
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