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Old 01-26-2016, 03:18 PM   #1
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Nagant

I forgot I bought one. What a piece of crap! The Russians actually fought WWI and used it in WWII. It was out of date by almost half a century by then. Horrible trigger pull, takes a week and a day to reload, and anyone you shot with it would get mad and beat the snot out of you. Probably useful for executions though.
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Old 01-26-2016, 04:16 PM   #2
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You mentioned one out of the 3 or so reasons it was still in use: 1) it WAS used for a lot of summary executions-especially at the hands of the NKVD.2) They had so MANY of them 3) although not widely done,it COULD be effectively silenced- both with the " Cat's Sneeze " self silencing ammo AND with an actual suppressor due to the gas seal... And 4) although the TT33 was already in usage,armor crewmen liked the ability to poke the barrel out of ports/slits in vehicle to shoot WITHOUT slinging empy cases around the turret's interior.... And lastly, I always wondered WHY the case volume was never fully exploited... Makes one wonder how the cartridge could be improved via modern revolvers,brass and hotter loadings.
 
Old 01-26-2016, 04:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gripper View Post
You mentioned one out of the 3 or so reasons it was still in use: 1) it WAS used for a lot of summary executions-especially at the hands of the NKVD.2) They had so MANY of them 3) although not widely done,it COULD be effectively silenced- both with the " Cat's Sneeze " self silencing ammo AND with an actual suppressor due to the gas seal... And 4) although the TT33 was already in usage,armor crewmen liked the ability to poke the barrel out of ports/slits in vehicle to shoot WITHOUT slinging empy cases around the turret's interior.... And lastly, I always wondered WHY the case volume was never fully exploited... Makes one wonder how the cartridge could be improved via modern revolvers,brass and hotter loadings.
Interesting about the silenced ammunition; can you describe it? Thanks.
 
 
Old 01-26-2016, 04:25 PM   #4
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It was actually pioneered in the adjoining Baltic/Scandinavian countries. And the development was carefully observed by the Soviets...think of their current specialty ammo- specifically silent handgun ammo... A Type of captive piston design...do a quick search with " Cat's Sneeze ammo " in the parameters.
 
Old 01-26-2016, 06:10 PM   #5
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why bother with developing some poc design, when far better ones already exist?
 
Old 01-26-2016, 06:18 PM   #6
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Oh,I agree- it WAS outdated, even at the time of the Russian Revolution... But,I was throwing out some of the reasons it remained in service. I DO believe the cartridge could be improved- both with bullet types AND higher velocities/heavier bullets....but,NOT in the Nagant revolver as it was produced. There WAS info out there about people running altered specimens in " non OEM caliber "( 7.62x25,.32 H&R etc), but I'm truly uncertain as to their safety and have never handled conversion cylinders in any format but the .32ACP( which kind of struck me as pointless).
 
Old 01-26-2016, 07:13 PM   #7
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no kidding, when a locked breech Keltec P32 is 4.5"x3.5", very "thin", $250, 7 ozs and can be hot loaded safely to produce 200 ft lbs. 60 gr Silvertip jhp at 1200 fps sort of jumps around in a 7 oz gun! :-) Every bit as bad as 158 plus p lhps in an alloy snubby, with a lot less grip to hang onto and a narrower impact area in the web of your hand, too. If I was going to bother with a .32, I'd go with 30 gr Split Nose at 1700 fps. 1/3rd less recoil, 2 wound tracks, same 200 ft lbs.
 
Old 01-26-2016, 07:18 PM   #8
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I like warm to hot loadings, but generally I go " middleweight to heavy for caliber".. Of course, I also tend to prefer service sized guns with some exceptions( Makarovs,P64's etc).
 
Old 01-28-2016, 08:48 PM   #9
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on what do you base this? :-) bs mag articles and blowhards at the gunshop? shoot some animals with those low velocity loads. You'll be un-impressed.
 
Old 01-29-2016, 06:53 AM   #10
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9x18 is one of those calibers that does better than the paper ballistic figures would indicate.... And, in appropriately resprung STEEL framed guns;can be loaded hotter and with heavier bullets.. As I have said before, I shoot Makarovs well. I always tend to tune out the blowhard types,and can't think of the last time I was in a shop.
 
Old 01-29-2016, 10:32 AM   #11
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It's nothing but a slightly scaled up copy of Walther PP. Still a blowback, and hence cannot be loaded very hot. And nothing performs better than the measured performance; i.e., the "paper ballistic figures".
 
Old 01-29-2016, 10:36 AM   #12
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If you want to put a silencer on something, get a locked breech semi-auto.
 
Old 01-29-2016, 10:59 AM   #13
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New user name, huh? Not all blowback guns are created equal. I DO prefer a locked breech- and often wonder about that 1911 scaled down to .389: chiefly the idea of a 9x18 barrel/conversion as an option- but Makarovs/P83/P64 and ESPECIALLY CZ82s are good examples of guns in this format that can be pushed reasonably hot. Not so much the FEG made alloy frames- although they have their adherents.
Remember the old Astra400/600 series of guns? They'd be expensive to make today, but they were blowback design guns.
Also, I wonder about the tyoe of gas delayed blowback on the Vektor CP1: chiefly whether the concept could be extended to Makarov PM/CZ82s etc....just brainstorming a little.
 
Old 01-29-2016, 01:19 PM   #14
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no, that's a guy who's known me since 1980. he's wrong about the can on the locked breech. the browning tilting barrel severely limits how heavy the can may be and still have the slide cycle normally, The "recoil booster" built into backs of cans for such guns beats the HELL out of the slide and barrel locking lugs. the cans are way big and heavy. they ruin the gun's ability to be ccw'd and still be swiftly drawn. if you want a silenced pistol which has a bit of tactical utility, either stick to the .22lr, or you'll have to go to the extreme trouble of the Russian "captive piston" ammo, in bottlenecked cases. which permit u to get makarov levels of "power', from a Makrov size and weight Defender 1911, and be quiet, but also let you swiftly switch over to .38 Casull levels of power, ie, 600+ ft lbs, but make a lot of noise. having both the /22lr and the Casull is a really good idea, and better yet, have a takedown, silenced 10" 223 AR, with both subsonic .22lr ammo in the conversion unit, and a silencer that handles the 800 ft lb, 400 yd capable 223 ammo.
 
Old 01-29-2016, 04:22 PM   #15
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Wow! I thought I posted about Nagant's.
 
Old 01-29-2016, 08:18 PM   #16
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And some wonder why there are few to no thread starts by other users.

Same symptom I saw on Patriot Network with him.
 
Old 01-30-2016, 11:32 AM   #17
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you don't post cause you know so little. that's my point. all you have to say anything "new" about is some esoteric pos that nobody else would bother to post about.
 
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