nikto

I mean, what;s it supposed to accomplish, anyway? the 223 will kill men to distances far beyond what anyone can reliably hit, under field conditions. Beyond 500 yds or so, nothing will expand a big game softppoint (reliably) cause such expansiion requires 1800 fps at impact. So all you're doing is poking a little hole in the animal, creating litttle shock, damage or blood loss. The further the animal is away, the more likely it is that he'll move while the bullet's in the air.
So the odds of gut shooting it go way up and it's got a BIG head start on getting away from you. You're certainly not going to hit it AGAIN as it flees, at such a distance other than by a pure fluke.
It's well proven that even the .458 to the chest won't always stop a wart hog or a zebra and that a 308 sp to the chest will normally suffice. So wtf bother with big bores or magnums? They just don't have much to offer in the way of practical advantage and they are hard on your shoulder, ear and wallet. Bad trade, man.

jbaker30

nitko, I agree for human targets the 223/556 is by far better. The big bores are used buy most guides in Alaska (hence the guide gun or 45-70) as bear defense, and in Africa for large and dangerous game. I personally use a 45-70 lever action for most of my hunting. With a hard cast bullet of 405grs @1700fps it punches right through a deer, or hog leaving just a silver dollar sized hole through the animal, and that includes bone and hide. You can eat right up to the hole. I also reload a speer hot core 350gr bullet that I push to 2400fps with about 4000ft/lbs of energy out of my ruger #1 that expands nicely and does tremendous tissue damage and hits like a freight train with 24 to 30 inches of deep penetration, a good load for moose, black bear, and elk. I have never had to take more than one shot with the 45-70, and most drop right there. I never had to track a hog, deer, or elk. Oh and this is my first post on this forum as my days are quite busy as the local gunsmith in my small town.
Regards,
JB

nikto

I don't believe the silver dollar size hole from a swc or lfp. a bit more than caliber size, and that's it. silver dollar is 1.5" in OD. Big game season is very short. What to do with the big clunk the rest of the year? :-)

Garand

Given that many of us, live in wildly different geographical locations, not all of us will hunt under the same conditions or distances. To top that off, long range shooting is a practiced skill and the sizes of animals in those geographical areas vary in size.

Yes gun kid we know your attitude about survival in an are that sees snow during portions of the year, but some of us have over come our fear of winter survival and learned to thrive. You have chose to limit yourself, that is fine... for you. We will continue to choose calibers that are effective in our geographical areas and be flexible.

nikto

sure you have. Try it WITHOUT modern marvels being shipped in every year, liar. Even Brad Angier had a TON of food and gear shipped in, every year. Ditto the Eskimos, for over a century now. :-)

jbaker30

Nikto you are right , the 405gr cast bullets I use are made locally, and expand about .5 inch @1700fps more like .80 cal certainly not 1.5 inches. My apologies sir. Also if I run it 1500fps or below I have found that it does not expand much if any. I suspect if one were to push it to 2000-2100fps you could get a bit more expansion, but the pressure levels would be questionable in my Marlin. The Ruger #1 could handle it though. I personally only hunt with my big bores, but many in my area shoot them for fun with very tame loads like the factory fodder Remington green box 405gr's and there own reloads. I get them frequently in my shop for alteration's and action tuning.
JB

nikto

they would foul the bore heavily at such speeds. sometimes theres a majic combo ofalloy, tempering and lube that lets you exceed, in SOME guns but you're better off to just paper patch them Google for castboolits.com forum. good info there

jbaker30

I'll check out that forum, thanks for the heads up.
JB

nikto

no prob. People who don't EFF with me have always been treated well.