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Old 12-10-2010, 07:29 AM   #1
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Question Providing Security during SHTF

We all talk about bug out or bug in. We have talked about SHTF and it's various forms. What about an off shoot of SHTF? Say you decide to stay, as will businesses. Have you ever given any thought to the idea of renting out your services like a security guard, personal protection etc..? Obviously people will need added security, heck they need it now.

Have you given this any thought? How would you approach this as to the gear you would need not to mention ammo and other items? This isn't a teotwawki question as I just don't really accept that possibility (so if it happens you can find me in the after life and say you told me so, but I probably won't care there either... just sayin...). I'm sure payment could be gear, gold, food... whatever is agreeable to the parties in question to make it worth while. I'm sure some will ask for the terrain in question, city, suburban, country... I have suburban all around so to me it would be that but it really depends on you.

Let's face it, I do electronic work and web site stuff so my primary occupational skills will be in a zero demand but in my secondary as a P.I. (yeah I got the classes done along with training... kinda feel like Humphrey Bogart, just not as dead), it does offer some advantages that could be of use.
 
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:47 AM   #2
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I guess it all depends on what the exact scenario is.

Taking care of my family is number one, all else secondary.

But if the scenario is such that providing security or other services doesn't interfere with priority one, then why not?
 
Old 12-10-2010, 09:24 AM   #3
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Never really thought of hiring out for security, although after watching the news of Katrina, I'd thought of freelancing the garbage detail for a while.
 
Old 12-10-2010, 02:10 PM   #4
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We own a security alarm & fire alarm company, which turns out to be one of the more recessiion-resistant fields. In good times, people have extra money to spend on us; in bad times they're driven to us.

I work hard to not be the 'ambulance chaser' - no need really as most people in the area know us - but while the old line of "a rising tide lifts all ships" is true about good times being good times for most anyone, during bad times crime and worries increase, which is also good for our business.

Security is one thing that is (imo) a good business even in bad times.
 
Old 12-10-2010, 04:10 PM   #5
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I know, from experience the physical security( indsutrial/commercial) is a dog eat dog business. That will roller coaster up and down with the economy and any percieved threats; unless mandated for insurance/liability reasons.

Wish I had time to expound but I don't.

Okay I will somewhat by "physical" I mean warm bodies with a pulse(maybe) provided by the lowest bidder.

Post-SHTF this may change some or not depending on how much of the shallow end of the gene pool is left alive.

Have I grown a bit jaded about stuff like this? Well maybe a tiny bit.

Now I did work with a few fine people., I do mean a few, who I'd call the ones who made things work/got things done. Funny thing is the ones who were relible and worked their butt's off were the ones whom often got the treated the worst by their own companies.

Sometimes I think managment took lessons by reading the "Dilbert" cartoon in the newspaper.

Last edited by AustDeathMachine; 12-10-2010 at 05:54 PM. Reason: to expound some more
 
Old 12-10-2010, 04:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Taking care of my family is number one, all else secondary.
And that is the only way to look at it!
 
Old 12-11-2010, 11:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustDeathMachine View Post
I know, from experience the physical security( indsutrial/commercial) is a dog eat dog business. That will roller coaster up and down with the economy and any percieved threats; unless mandated for insurance/liability reasons...
All true regarding phsyical-security services (I did that for a while myself a long time ago), but ours is security systems, which doesn't require the same constant ratio of personnel-cost to revenue that guard work does. That makes a big difference in the business-end of it.

I hear you on the treatment of security guards though. Seems like everyone from the customer to the company owner to the cops, deride & despise guards when things are good, but then abuse them even more when things go bad; no winning for those guys most times.

That said, even though the guards themselves largely get dumped on, that's not necessarily an indicator of the business itself being less than very profitable for the owner. The 'business' of security could still be a very good business from a profit standpoint where the owner is concerned.
 
Old 12-12-2010, 08:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
Taking care of my family is number one, all else secondary.
That is my priority also!
 
Old 12-13-2010, 04:24 AM   #9
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[QUOTE=Aslan;209970]Taking care of my family is number one, all else secondary.QUOTE]

Agreed, however I have a friend who said he would rather run from an armed criminal and leave his children and wife defenceless than face the attacker with a gun. How do you talk sense into people so naive?
Suprisingly there are many people here in Aus like that :P

Post SHTF I think militia groups could be hired by the wealthy upper class for security/warlord purposes, kind of like in africa at the moment. Actually the wartorn parts of africa are pretty damn fine examples of how a post SHTF world would function.
 
Old 12-13-2010, 05:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausi Hunta View Post
Agreed, however I have a friend who said he would rather run from an armed criminal and leave his children and wife defenceless than face the attacker with a gun. How do you talk sense into people so naive?
Suprisingly there are many people here in Aus like that :P
Guess your friend is a Yellow-Bellied Jock that doesn't appreciate what he has in life. There really isn't way to talking sense into a Jock.

Unfortunately that's what happens when people choose to have a Dirtbag live their lives for them.
 
Old 12-14-2010, 08:15 PM   #11
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For some reason this question intrigues me more than a lot of other stuff I've come across on internet, 'gun forums'. It just so happens that, yes, I've thought a lot about this subject.

To me, running is out of the question. Me and mine ain't going to be, 'bugging out' anywhere. So, I guess that means, 'Custer's Last Stand' is going to have to take place, here, at home. The people who've been the most instructive and useful to me are (Who else?) FerFAL and, 'Ragnar Benson'. Their stories about urban survival inside a gutted-out, bankrupt, and violent society have helped me to form many of my own current survival hypotheses.

Sure, I've got our home property, 'mapped out' to be a suicide run for one or two intruders; but, it's not really one or two people that I'm worried about. Maybe, just maybe, I could take advantage of my intimate knowledge of the terrain and a superior ability with weapons to successfully engage a squad-sized group; but, it's the platoon-size group that I really worry about.

I've, slowly but surely, decided that my own survival and that of my family depends - not so much on myself, but - on mutual cooperation with my neighbors. Like all too many people, I don't really know my neighbors all that well; and, from what I see going on outside the front window, everyday, I'm sure I don't want to know any of them all that well, either.

Still, individually, each of us has a lot to lose; and, happily, I live in the midst of a cluster of very heavily armed neighbors to whom farming and the American, 'gun culture' are a way of life. I hear shots going off around here just about everyday. (There isn't a stray cat, ground hog, or coyote left, anywhere, within miles of here!) Mutual need AND common sense dictate that in the event of a serious, 'social emergency' it would behoove all of us to draw more closely together.

This is the most viable way I'm able to imagine for me and my own family to survive a relatively short-term social emergency. Perhaps fortuitously I live on one of the last large sections of farmland in the township. There's food here; there's water; and, if push comes to shove, there's also several, 'fallback positions' for us to take refuge in.

This is what my own idea of, 'hiring myself out' means. Would I work for strangers? No. What would I do if I needed to resupply? I'd use whatever, 'field-expedient' means were available to me at the time.

More pertinent questions than, 'Where would you run?' or, 'What would you accept as payment?' are, 'How long could you hold out?' or, 'Which neighbors would you be willing to, 'join hands' with in order to survive?'

Forget about helping strangers, or hiring yourself out. Concentrate instead on planning the one thing you will, sooner or later, be forced to do if you want to survive: Identify and plan for your own eventual need to resupply. (Because, at some point, you WILL be forced to become exactly like those against whom you are defending.)

The only way to avoid such adverse circumstances is to hope, to pray, that any significant social upheaval will be of the shortest possible duration because otherwise, ........

As for, 'marketable' personal skillsets? I have my specialties: I'm a damned fine gardener; an extraordinary long range marksman with a sound knowledge of guns and gunsmithing; and I am, also, an absolute master at building and reloading, both, shotgun shells and centerfire metallic cartridges.

What is more, I'm able to: locate, identify, and prepare about 30% of the wild growing plants on this farm. (As always the biggest problems are going to come in the wintertime.) Maybe this will be useful, or maybe it won't; but - give me 2 or 3 days, and - I could turn this entire place into a deathtrap for anything that moves.

(These talents I owe to a guy named, 'Ragnar Benson'; and, yes, I have a number of his, no longer published, early survival manuals. In fact, I consider Ragnar to be a genius at knowing how to stay alive under the most adverse of social circumstances!)

FerFAL is great at urban survival skills and, 'black market economics'. Ragnar, for his part, is fantastic for survival in both the city, and in the woods and fields.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/p/book.html
http://www.paladin-press.com/category/Ragnar_Benson

Last edited by Pistolero; 12-14-2010 at 08:22 PM.
 
Old 12-14-2010, 11:50 PM   #12
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I firmly believe that our economic system is headed for a major adjustment. Economics has become a hobby for me and what I see is at least massive inflation the kind that at least equals what was in Israel during the 80's but I believe it will be far worse. There is no way to avoid this and with the current politicians that we have, you can bet on the worst end of the scale.

With this said I still think that money can be made but setting yourself up for the right kind of play is needed. On another gun board the owner shuts down any topic that depicts bad times and he also states that "this is the time to buy land bro". If the economist that I am listening to (one of them is Peter Schiff) and their track record is pretty darn good by the way, then you can expect massive adjustments in real estate and that includes undeveloped land as well. I think many of the old school weathering stations are going to be shaken to the ground. One thing that won't be is the need for security.

We have all read the reports about police departments laying off. Then follows, "hey you should buy a gun to protect yourself" or the " I have 40,000 guns and my home is in the hills with a pitbull that has aids" discussion.

Time to be honest, could you imagine a third of the United States in a post katrinia type of situation? Everything would grind to a halt, marshal law would be put into place and with our current President... we would have our own Chavez for life. However If we as I think would get massive inflation, items would cost so much that black markets would spring up almost everywhere leading to a whole new economy almost over night.

I'm quite sure that any Tom, Dick and Harry would grab a gun and say they could do the job. You have guys that swear they are black ops but in fact are mall ninjas. Sorting through this chaos would take a little doing but for those that have prepped for a shtf scenario, I would think they would be in a better position to take advantage of this new economy. You know, the anti gunners always express their faulty belief that with guns on the streets, you could end up with the wild west and if things go as wrong as many folk think then they might be right but only in as far as the wild west type of stuff happening in the places with the most constrictive laws such as the northern states.

We can all agree that things are getting worse as far as personal responsibility is concerned. The government has no idea how to get us out of this other than spend, barrow (which no one is lending to the feds) or print money... say hello to inflation. In the past when things got bad people still had a measure of respect for authority but today the people praise the criminal and I think that is because they themselves are criminals. For the love of pete, just look at the general population! They are willing to have people feel them up and down (yeah, touching your wife in that special spot while they let the young 20 something guy with a one way ticket who has a towel wrapped on his head pass right through), look at them naked just for a false sense of security with air travel.

What I'm thinking is maybe an armed courier type of service. Where you could transport items or people.... leaving the neighborhood watch thing to the mall ninjas. Being as flexible as possible which would allow for the advantages of different opportunities. Hey, I'm thinking...
 
Old 12-15-2010, 04:59 PM   #13
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Good post, vaguard! Keep on thinking.
 
Old 12-16-2010, 07:34 AM   #14
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However, a lot of that catastrophe goes away if we stop pretending we can make the current system work, and declare insolvency like Russia did, and simply reorganize.

However, continuing with the thought, at first things will be a shootout. Just look at Juarez to see what happens when government is ineffectual and (for the most part) only criminals have guns.

I think up here things would be more like the wild west when people realize the fedgov is helpless in a widespread collapse. Namely, Sheriffs will exercise their power to deputize posses and they will go after the criminal element with a vengeance. I think there'll be a lot of violence, followed by some shooting by the citizenry, then by the deputized posse and increased rope usage for a while, then things will settle down into smaller localized economies, possibly with t he US Balkanizing into several smaller countries in the end.
 
Old 12-17-2010, 05:41 AM   #15
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I read an interesting interpretation on how the United States system was designed. In his discussion he stated the the States were suppose to act like "bulk heads on a ship", if one became insolvent then the damage would not spread to the others. However in our current system, the Feds have over a period of many years removed States rights and forced almost total dependency on the Fed for everything. When the US government took the United States off of the gold standard in the 70's we in fact declared bankruptcy to the world. This was the beginning of our Ponzi scheme. If we had some measure of restraint in fiscal policy then perhaps our children or grandchildren would be having this discussion. Liberal (and note I don't say democrat as republicans fall into this as well) fiscal and sociological policy for decades have been spend more and garner maximum control through dependency i.e. pork barrel projects. Inject this with the current big business accounting of only looking one quarter ahead instead of multi-year outlooks (which was changed for the shareholder) and you know have a recipe which entails utter disaster. Anyone who is a practicing Jew or Christian (since Christians share the old testament or Torah with the Jews and as I am a Christian I can speak to this... have no idea on other religions) knows of the commandment against exorbitant usury. Our entire system is designed on this type of slavery ie 30 and now 50 year mortgages??? Who can pay this off? Not many and this is what they wanted, a new complete system of slaves. One in which they do not have to feed you or provide any care. Just pay your over lord once a month and to keep you on the plantation they dangle a carrot of a bigger or better domicile for your future.

Like all things, greed is contagious and spread to all other industries. The Fed looked with glee knowing that they could usurp even more control because back in the 70's when the gold standard was removed it now allows them to print as much as they want and thus they can buy their way into any and everything. Total control is just a few revolutions on the printing press away. Problem filter to the surface but are swept under the rug... until the rug is on top of a mountain of deficit. Then the nations that have actual goods look at your money and realize it is worth far less than it has, your bond buyers (namely China) who now realizes that the threat you have made to go insolvent unless they buy more or your worthless bonds, have now gotten off of your currency and backed their own with gold. This gives their currency an actual value (although China is ready to implode due to many reasons).

Look in history and specifically at the fall of Rome. You'll see that overnight the currency became worthless as roman citizens buried their gold as they thought things would set right in just a few years... it did after the dark ages.

I'm not saying we are headed for another dark age, we are headed for something but I'm not a prophet so your guess is as good as mine. I do see that a version of SHTF is about to transpire. Where hard goods will themselves become a currency of sort and the ability to provide a transferable service that is of use to those with whom you wish to trade. Since I have a family then I would need food, medical attention and supplies ie clothing and such.

Juarez is an example however I feel that if our currency goes into a devaluation then the drug market will be effected in many unforeseen ways and one that I can see will cause the lack of profitability in said venture resulting in a movement of consolidation and abandonment of many markets.

A new economy with new opportunities develops but the transition is like a woman going through labor pains...
 
Old 12-29-2010, 07:04 AM   #16
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In a way I'm hired security already as a soldier. I recieve job offers in the private sector for my skills currently. SHTF I only see those offers increasing. If the pay and the odds are right I'm your security.

If I'm in "retirement" the only things that are going to motivate me are need and outstanding oppurtunity. SHTF and the bad guys show up in abrams tanks or endless marauding hoards then I've always imagined banding together with my neighbors. (Actaully I've been working on stacking the deck in keeping in contact with old freinds many from the army and have been arranging to purchase land together in a remote area to retire to so that as neighbors we can really rely on each other.) Like I already said even if it is TEOTWAWKI if the price is right...
 
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