vaguard

What do you envision as the most likely event that would cause a breakdown in society. After Katrina, it was defiantly shtf but it was only temporary... do you envision events similar to this or events that have longer ramifications such as a terrorist dirty bomb?

I ask this question because it amazes me the level of preparation that some folk take. Some are very thorough even to the most minute item and some it would seem expect an Alamo type setting where it's just a lot of shooting and they have stocked up to tens of thousands of rounds.

7of7

I think financial collapse of our current government would do it... not anything outside... we have seen the effects on a smaller scale with the current situation.. the results for my area have been higher crime rates of home invasions...

DaRkWoLf

vaguard,

I believe that, in America, natural disasters and economic depression are the factors which would influence us on a smaller scale, and a "last straw" breakdown in the American political machine for whatever reason would affect us much worse. A nationwide depression is ultimately manifested in the decay of localities and can be mitigated in the community by the cultivation of the ideal of sustainable development, whereas political and ideological conflict would be dynamic region or nation wide, and most likely militant in some way or form.

I honestly think that the non-hyper-"liberal" back country campers/backpackers pretty much have the basics in the right skill sets for activities outside of urban areas. Handing someone a precision rifle doesn't make them a sniper, just as having a BOB or massive stocks of "preps" doesn't make one a survivalist. Further, most of the prevailing definition of "survivalist" mentality are in no position to, and have limited knowledge of making hypothetical post-SHTF life scenarios anything more than "survival," which kind of defeats the point.

arebindixie

Natural or man made disasters, causing rather short term disruptions of order and services, and civil unrest (likely fueled by economic, political, and/or ethnic tension) resulting in localized disorder and culminating in short periods of martial law are probably the most likely and most survivable SHTF scenarios. Neither would be likely to bring about a total breakdown in society nor long term social and political ramifications.

A major terrorist attack causing far reaching damage such as a dirty bomb, release of chemical or biological agents, or an EMP strike could forever alter society as we know it as could an unsuccessful insurrection. Violence, disease, disruption of services and so forth would provide convenient excuses for draconian emergency powers and executive orders and military intervention. Survival for many would be tenuous at best in areas most dramatically affected and should basic sanitation be disrupted, disease would soon spread rampantly since American immune systems are far more vulnerable than those in the third world. Well planned retreats could easily be deemed threatening and would not survive coordinated military strikes including air to ground support.

vaguard

I've seen politics pop up and this is a very real scenario for me to accept. We all know there is a strong political undercurrent that is about to erupt come November elections but let us be honest, what can these newly elected officials really do? Without a super majority to override a Presidential veto... how can they possibly stop this cancer of laws? I fear when people realize just how bad this entire situation is, they will become violent, how could they not as they lose income and/or jobs, health care turns to the nightmare it is with IRS agents breathing down your neck... oh hell I could go on and on about this law but you guys probably know more than I do on this anyway. I believe this law (health care) can lead to many things that I just can't wrap my brain around such as martial law or economic collapse, insert your variables here as folk rise up to different degrees in protest and rebellion.

Now it's easy to let my mind run down this path but what is the most likely outcome of all of this in your opinion?

DaRkWoLf

In reality: Probably not going to happen in the first place on any sort of major scale if at all.

Hypothetically: Redefinition of boundaries and laws within the US along a composite of ideological and racial demographic lines.

.45 COLT

That's assuming the military survives intact and functional. Depending on the cause of a collapse/breakdown/upheaval, that assumption may or may not be correct. No matter, I can't defend against air strikes, unless I can get some RedEyes, so no sense worrying about that.

Where I am, I can be completely self-sufficient for a long time. I'm set up so I don't need electricity or any delivered fuels. I raise all my food, can work the land with my team of oxen. Heat/cook with wood, light with candles. Defense, if necessary, 6 family members, all shooters, hunters. Depending on the duration, I might run out of one thing I overlloked until recently - SALT. More than just for seasoning, I use a lot of the stuff for preserving and pickling.

DC

andy

Unless $100 bills are toilet paper, it's NOT shtf. It's just some little bump that all you need do is leave the area, have a little cash stashed. Katrina gave New Orleans a 3 day warning, during which any little grandma could have ridden a bicycle 100 miles inland, and been perfectly safe. Only the morons had problems.

andy

It's GUARANTEED to occur someday, the question is when, and can you realistically do anything about it, and how much are you willing to spend, in time and $, to prep yourself for it. Above ground, existing shelters will all soon be hit by the desperate. 6 people can't do much of anything in the way of pulling 24 hour guard.

carguy

Read up on the financial collapse in Argentina.

andy

so what? all they have/had to do was move elsewhere, problem fixed.

Steve32

Country wide hurricane, earthquake, oil shortage (no welfare checks, no jobs), or a really slow fall.

Texasmongoose

I would believe from what people say in Texas they are well stocked up on food water and ammo and a few guns. It was nice of the Legislature to pass a deal that says in a disaster they can not come take the guns of the people. Many were broken when taken and rusted up do to neglect also no records kept on who owned what so a lot of people did not get their guns back and the people who took the guns were the Police mostly more so then the Military operating under orders to do so also. I am not sure about the odds of large scale actually happening but as people prepare for anything large scale it also serves as being prepared for small scale that can hit anywhere such as tornadoes, floods and earth quakes. The first thought that comes to mind is being directly involved and your home being directly involved but an area a few miles away actually up to a couple hundred miles. I am a few hundred miles from the coast and the people came here and bought out tarps and batteries water and flashlights and clean the shelves.

Aslan

The OWS crowd has me thinking that we may see some huge riots and general thuggery. May even be enough to disrupt things for a while.

If the budget crisis ever gets to the pint where the welfare checks stop printing, cities will burn. Total collapse? no, but it could be a month before any sense of normal gets restored.

AustDeathMachine

I'm begining to wonder about that as well.

We even have some of these tards in my area.

gripper

I see it all as orchestrated by elements within our government..not exclusively under the current POTUS,but definitely ramping up.

vaguard

It took almost three years (2 years and 5 months to be exact) before I finally got a new job... hurray for me!! My new job puts me back in the IT field for a national bank and that has given me special opportunities to look at things like OWS (our local hippies) and many other interesting things.

I think OWS is politically organized but is collapsing from the weight of the freeloaders however when the DNC meets, it will be interesting to see what turn of events transpire. As for our topic, I follow Peter Schiff and agree with his thinking. I believe our next SHTF scenario will be the collapse of the dollar. Not a total absolute but a degrading to a point where our lives are radically changed. It is at that point I expect to see riots and break down in society as the folk who get a vast majority of their income through government services will be in a place that they find shortages on items they need and things that are available are vastly more expensive and they are unable to purchase.

Garand

Very interesting theory, in the end you can only protect yourself and your family. At minimum prepare for that.

Pistolero

Personally, I do not see the typical American family surviving any sort of prolonged loss of (Ready?) electricity, or any shortage of motor fuel. If electricity should disappear from any area for an extended period of time, that neighborhood will quickly disintegrate, food shortages, and communication problems would quickly occur. Worse, civil riots and looting will soon follow.

Same thing if motor fuel gets cut off. The effect(s) of the problem would be less severe for awhile than with a serious electrical shortage; but, ultimately, looting and civil riot would be sure to follow. Concomitant unemployment would, of course, lead to a significant increase in all sorts of neighborhood crime. More of us would be sure to have to resort to small arms in order to protect our families and homes.

Is any of this actually going to happen? Perhaps not right away; but, as a betting man, I'd say such events are, 'sure things' for the foreseeable future and, especially, given the: present obvious lack of quality, ineffectiveness, and disinterest of America's current leadership.

Right now, 21st century America is NOT in a position to successfully weather any genuinely significant, 'bumps in the road'. If the problem is either economic or natural the immediate result(s) is going to hit various segments of our society very very hard!



NOTE: We were talking the other day about, 'disaster money'. Currency that could take the place of both legal tender and credit cards after a crisis hit. While opinions vary, I went with small arms ammunition as the most likely form of acceptable barter currency. After continuing to think about this subject for a couple of days, nothing I've come up with, so far, has changed my mind.

A pocket full of bullets - That's what'll get you home with something in your shopping basket!

AustDeathMachine

I agree: "We deal in lead" Also copper and brass.

7of7

yep.. a pocket full will or should, get you something in your shopping basket, and the magazine full will keep it yours..

vaguard

I'm not so sure. If I have seen anything it is the fact that those in power have and will transgress our liberties in a moments notice. Fast and Furious was simply put into play to accomplish this very thing. Since the time of Lincoln, our liberties have been reduced till today where the congress has authorized that a citizen can be held without being charged indefinitely.

All of us here know that it is the greatest desire of the government to rid us of our right to carry and defend ourselves, they only lack the right moment to do so. Given an instance they will institute this policy immediately for the preservation of the Union. While it is true that we still have many more freedoms than any other nation, we are still slaves under the yoke of an oppressive tyrannical government bent on total domination of our economic pursuits and the most frightening of all in my opinion has been the governments deep desire to replace God with themselves. The audacity of this and total disregard of such shows the moral and spiritual bankruptcy of not only our entire governing system but the people as a whole.

We desire to stand, defend and protect our family and neighbors from uncertain forces that seek to harm and worse if allowed to precede however we are no longer the majority my friends but rather the minority. What was once known as right and just is now ridiculed and mocked. Creatures that seek comfort at the expense of their immortal souls are not the types that one can barter with as their disease is one that is a total debilitating cancer that eats the physical as well as the spiritual.

If you want to barter, keep packs of twinkis or ho hos maybe even a box of condoms but save the bullets for the thugs and rapist that shall surely beat down our doors just like in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.

money30

What do you envision as the most likely event that would cause a breakdown in society. After Katrina, it was defiantly shtf but it was only temporary... do you envision events similar to this or events that have longer ramifications such as a terrorist dirty bomb?

I ask this question because it amazes me the level of preparation that some folk take. Some are very thorough even to the most minute item and some it would seem expect an Alamo type setting where it's just a lot of shooting and they have stocked up to tens of thousands of rounds.

differ

They''ve known for years that the baby boomers will collapse SS. It's just a question of how long they can inflate the dollar to hide the facts, that's all. When the $ hits true rock bottom and collapses, it will be katey bar the door, for real, everywhere.