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Old 01-16-2011, 11:57 AM   #1
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Kel-Tec KSG Dual-Tube Pump Shotgun

I was wondering what other people's initial thoughts were on this... http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=5659 ?
 
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:03 PM   #2
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Initial thought is "Since it's a Kel-Tec, will it hold together long enough to empty both tubes?"

DC
 
Old 01-16-2011, 11:34 PM   #3
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More nimble than a sawed off shotgun!

Hmmm, someone(else) try it and give me a customer review.
 
Old 01-17-2011, 10:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .45 COLT View Post
Initial thought is "Since it's a Kel-Tec, will it hold together long enough to empty both tubes?"

DC
This would be my major concern too... Should that prove to not be an issue though, what are your thoughts on having the extra ammo and basic layout of the weapon?
 
Old 01-18-2011, 07:29 PM   #5
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The only possible scenario where I might see an advantage would be clearing a building. Even then, I'm not convinced that I nee the extra ammunition. If I have to clear a building. I believe I'd firebomb it.

I'll pass on Kel-Tec's newest.

DC
 
Old 01-19-2011, 11:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .45 COLT View Post
The only possible scenario where I might see an advantage would be clearing a building. Even then, I'm not convinced that I nee the extra ammunition. If I have to clear a building. I believe I'd firebomb it.

I'll pass on Kel-Tec's newest.

DC
This brings up a question I had... strictly as a home defense weapon, would you really need that many rounds vs. say 8 or 9 rounds? I know you can never have too much ammo when you need it, but in a practical sense is it actually "needed?"
 
Old 01-19-2011, 11:26 AM   #7
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Came across a few videos. The video quality isn't the best but there is some good info and shows it broken down.





 
Old 01-19-2011, 07:18 PM   #8
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I can't watch videos. I'm on dial-up and it takes about a week and a half for a short video to load.

A lot of firepower is nice, I suppose, but a home invasion defense shouldn't go beyond a couple of well-placed shots. My situation may be somewhat unique - each door triggers a loud firebell alarm and halogen floodlights at eye level. Two large, well-trained dogs are also in the mix.

Now, somebody in a home defense situation, where the home is under actual attack, might benefit from the extra rounds, although in that scenario, I would rely more on my SKSs than a shotgun. (the shotguns are there and loaded anyhow - just in case).

DC
 
Old 01-19-2011, 10:11 PM   #9
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The idea isn't too bad if it's a flood of people coming at you.
Otherwise, I'm not seeing an advantage over fire one load one on a combat proven Remington 870 shotgun. Additionally, the 870 is strong in avalibility and those with experience in smithing and tactically firing it.

My thoughts anyway...
 
Old 01-20-2011, 10:51 AM   #10
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I checked out they're website and they're suggested retail price was around $800.00.
For that kind of money you can trick out an 870 with everything you could think of.
 
Old 01-20-2011, 12:52 PM   #11
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Yeah, I saw that the intial price was $880 (I think they stated it in the video as well as reading that price in other searches), which seems pretty high to me.

I guess one of the questions would become, does having an extra tube (loaded with a different type of ammunition) be worth the extra cost?
 
Old 01-20-2011, 01:30 PM   #12
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I found this really good article and thought I would paste it in below as the site it's hosted on was being a little finicky. ( http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kel-...tical-shotgun/ )

Kel-Tec CNC
http://www.keltecweapons.com/

Flexing your creative muscles is not always rewarded in the gun industry, and often the opposite is true. Entire gun companies have been founded on copying the 100 year old 1911 design, the 100+ year old Winchester and Marlin rifle designs, decades old Smith & Wesson revolvers, and now of course the expired Stoner patent with the AR-15 platform. On the flip side we have but one example of a new and innovative product that has caught on and made it big. Three guesses? Ok it’s Glock. But try to think of another. You won’t find one.

Kel-Tec, it seems, doesn’t really care about all of that. I don’t know if the safe road seems boring to them, or if they are just compulsive engineers. But I can assure you that there is one big, bigger, BIGGEST story at SHOT Show this year, and it is Kel-Tec’s first ever shotgun, the KSG.

If we didn’t have a video of the gun I’m not sure I could even explain it properly. I stood back for a while and watched the crowd (more of a swarm actually), around the Kel-Tec booth today, and there was a palpable aura of disbelief. Some people got it, you could see, but a lot of people just didn’t, and even a one minute dis-assembly/re-assembly of the gun didn’t seem to help. This is a completely new firearm, from concept, to design, to gun on the shelf (it won’t be on the shelves until fall), and as exciting as this is, in the climate of a skeptical gun buying public that is our industry, Kel-Tec has a long road to go for the KSG to gain long term commercial success. The potential for the gun is staggering, much like it was for Glock, and if the KSG is as sturdy and reliable as it is innovative, this gun could become the standard for Law Enforcement and consumer tactical shotgun sales in the years to come.

The KSG is a bull-pup shotgun design that has two magazine feed tubes, each side capable of holding 7 shells, for a total capacity of 14 +1. Yes folks, that is not a misprint, 14 shells in the magazine, one in the pipe, for a total of a 15 round pump shotgun with no external magazine. You flip between the two tubes with a lever, so you can put buckshot in one side, slugs in the other, or breaching rounds in one side and buckshot in the other, etc.

But, as brilliant, original and inspired as this may seem, that is only the beginning of what I think is a very long story for the KSG. I haven’t fired the gun yet (nobody has from what I can tell), but the Kel-Tec engineers appear to be ready to take on a skeptical and finicky gun buying public by anticipating consumer resistance to new ideas in firearm design. In particular they addressed two big issues even in this early prototype.

The Bull-Pup Issue – One question you are going to hear about the KSG right out of the gate is “Is it legal for civilian purchase?” This is because it looks too short to be legal. A shotgun, by law, has to have an 18”+ barrel or it is falls under the National Firearms Act (like machineguns) as “any other weapon” and requires a special permit and tax to own.

The KSG has an 18.5” barrel, which is perfectly legal, but the chamber is not over or in front of your trigger hand like it is in a standard pump shotgun. The chamber is actually resting against your shoulder, with your cheek resting against the side of it. This backs the whole gun up, making it seem impossibly short to be legal.

In the American market, bull-pup designs have not been widely successful. FNH has made some great in-roads with their PS90, but even that has something of a cult following. Bull-pup designs have been around for decades, but you can spend a whole day at a busy range and not see one. If you do it will probably be either the PS90 or the RFB, which was the last gutsy and ground breaking product from Kel-Tec in a .308 bull-pup rifle.

The biggest complaint you will hear about bull-pups, and I heard it today at the Kel-Tec booth, is that people are afraid of the shell going off next to their head. Because as rare as is that a gun blows out from a barrel obstruction or faulty ammunition, it can theoretically happen with any gun, and taking the chance with it next to your head is a little scary if there are no protections in place. Kel-Tech apparently did their homework and anticipated this concern with consumers, so they built in a blast shield. The KSG stock surrounds the action of the gun and completely protects the shooter. It is made of 1/16th inch steel, so any energy directed out of the action will naturally seek the path of least resistance and be directed down through the rear ejection port of the gun, at the ground.

2nd Generation Features in a 1st Gen Gun. – One of the biggest issues I have with many firearms is that they rush to get guns to market without fully thinking through the needs and desires of the consumer. The gun hits the market and instantly consumers want things that were not included in the first design. Does it come in different finishes? Will it accept an accessory rail? Does it shoot different types of ammo? .

Kel-Tec has learned from the mistakes of others and are releasing the KSG with many features that you would traditionally expect on a 2nd generation version of a new gun. It will come stock with both a lower and an upper accessory rail. One of the prototypes at the booth had a front handle already attached, and it was really sweet. Another of the prototypes today was finished in an alternate drab green color, and as part of the demonstration, we learned that the KSG accepts 2 3/4” shells in the magazine, and possibly a little shorter, but it doesn’t take the new stubby shells. It does have a 3” chamber, but 3” shells have to be fed manually. There are even two holes in the grip to hold the two take down pins when you take the gun apart.

I am envisioning a wall of sticky notes at Kel-Tec with ideas on them that all led to this gun, and they seem to have thought of just about everything.

The KSG is going to generate a lot of early excitement when it becomes available in the fall, but the true test of any new concept in firearm design is to get beyond the early adopter phase (raise your hand if you are an early adopter). I think this gun is going to make it. Kel-Tec as a company has demonstrated the desire and ability to better their products over the years and I’m sure the KSG will be no exception as this prototype grows into a production line product. Hopefully we’ll get one of these to shoot when they do go into production. The prototypes are sure exciting and I can’t wait to shoot it. MSRP is planned at $880.
 
Old 01-22-2011, 07:39 PM   #13
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It looks like a nice DZSG - Designated Zombie Suvival Gun
Not a primary, but definitely a backup!
 
Old 01-24-2011, 05:57 PM   #14
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I'll pass if I feel the need for a shotgun I'll get and 870.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 12:37 PM   #15
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What do you like about the 870 over the Kel-Tec?
 
Old 01-28-2011, 05:54 PM   #16
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The reason I personally would choose an 870 over the Kal Tec is because the 870 has a 60 year track record of sporting and combat from Remington. This means that spare parts, accesories, smithing knowledge, hunting and tactical experince with it are everywhere. http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/remington-70-e.html

The Kel Tec Dual Tube is a nice concept. After looking at the info it would be nice to have 14+1 rounds in a bullpup design and be able to switch from one tube or the other. I took notice you can fire and feed it but that's the same with both.

Granted the 870 was new once upon a time too and if I was there then I would be recommending the Whinchster 1897 as having the proven track record over the newcomer too.

Last edited by Unalist; 01-28-2011 at 10:02 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2011, 07:52 PM   #17
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I would choose the Mossberg 500 or 590 or the Remington 870 over the new KelTec for several reasons:
1. Both the Mossbergs and Remingtons have long histories. The Remingtons have been the Police standard for years. The Mossbergs were the only shotgun that met the Army's ridgid testing.
3. KelTec products have a history of being rough around the edges, this combined with the newness of the design would lead me to choose a $400-500 Mossberg or Remington over a $800 KelTec.
 
Old 08-18-2011, 12:27 PM   #18
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They have an update video on their site http://www.keltecweapons.com/

Looking like it will be available at the end of the year.
 
Old 08-18-2011, 01:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner View Post
What do you like about the 870 over the Kel-Tec?
Pretty much what Unalist said below. And, after owning one of their SUB2000 carbines that took Glock mags I could do better and do it more reliably with any of my Glock pistols.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unalist View Post
The reason I personally would choose an 870 over the Kal Tec is because the 870 has a 60 year track record of sporting and combat from Remington. This means that spare parts, accesories, smithing knowledge, hunting and tactical experince with it are everywhere. http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/usa/remington-70-e.html

The Kel Tec Dual Tube is a nice concept. After looking at the info it would be nice to have 14+1 rounds in a bullpup design and be able to switch from one tube or the other. I took notice you can fire and feed it but that's the same with both.

Granted the 870 was new once upon a time too and if I was there then I would be recommending the Whinchster 1897 as having the proven track record over the newcomer too.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 08:06 AM   #20
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What I didn't care about it was the manual switch between the magazines. Now, if it automatically switched, that would be different. With it entirely manual, and the switch in an ergonomically bad position, I'll pass..especially for $880.00... I can buy more versatile firearms for that price.. 30 rds of 45 from my Thompson isn't bad either..
 
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