think a bolt rifle would have sufficed? - Arms Locker
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Old 07-08-2016, 09:50 AM   #1
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think a bolt rifle would have sufficed?

 
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Old 07-08-2016, 09:52 AM   #2
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see any malfunctions?
 
Old 07-08-2016, 12:18 PM   #3
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A well trained squad with SMLE MKIII's would have sufficed.
 
 
Old 07-08-2016, 03:47 PM   #4
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Melvin, I don't know what you were doing a couple of hours ago, but I was ringing steel at 504 yds with a 101 year old M1896 Mauser using cast lead bullets. It is not the firearm you have it is how you utilize it. Quit cherry picking your fantasy. Stay inside your spider hole or else someone will nail your butt to the wall during daylight.
 
Old 07-08-2016, 04:07 PM   #5
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Garand, the 6.5MM Swiss? I'm assuming original sights? Why couldn't my 6.5MM Carcano do that? I would be lucky to hit at less than half that.
 
Old 07-08-2016, 04:11 PM   #6
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6.5x55 mm SWEDISH, as it was issued in 1915. Just cause Melvin isn't capable, in no way means that others aren't.
 
Old 07-08-2016, 04:16 PM   #7
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Cool

My plans for Sunday include giving one of the SKS's(probably the Chicom spiker) my Finn M39 and my Type 53 some more exercise... If the spirit moves me I may throw the Zastava M92 or the PPS43C into the mix-just so I can aggravate the FUDD who whines about " Those Commie Machine Gunz!"every time he sees me....of course, it irks him that I shoot better with irons than he does with a scope :-)
 
Old 07-08-2016, 04:20 PM   #8
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If I pack along my Dad( he will be 91 12/01/2016!) I may set him up to shoot a. SKS and/or one of my Makarovs.... And maybe I hand him the keys a few miles from the range,tell him to meet me at the parking; and run in with his dog for company-she is an old.but active Labrador who is still happy to do roadwork with me.
 
Old 07-08-2016, 04:26 PM   #9
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Back on the range at 0800 tomorrow for 2 days (10 stages) main match shooting. Melvin are you going to "sneak and peak" this weekend with your airsoft??
 
Old 07-09-2016, 08:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garand View Post
Melvin, I don't know what you were doing a couple of hours ago, but I was ringing steel at 504 yds with a 101 year old M1896 Mauser using cast lead bullets. It is not the firearm you have it is how you utilize it....
You mean "it's the carpenter, not the hammer...?" The heck you say.

The 6.5 swedish is a VERY capable caliber. I had a mauser in the caliber in the 90's, and that was a seriously flat-shooting round; that bullet just seemed to skate thru the air with very little concern for much of anything. Ended up selling it to one of my brothers who was looking for an inexpensive rifle.
 
Old 07-09-2016, 04:04 PM   #11
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I have had 5 of them in the last 30 years, and I keep coming back to them. Well because of the impending rain here tomorrow we shot 12 main match stages today. Talk about being bagged, at least there are a couple of beer in the frig.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 07:06 AM   #12
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steel the size of a car, maybe, a shot every 30 seconds, half of them misses, even after you got "zeroed in". much ado about nothing. and if a target suddenly had to be hit at 300 yds, you'd have to either hold 20 FEET low, or click on the sights for 20 seconds. So how is this bs supposed to be about anything I'd care about?. I'm busy teaching wifey karate and driving
 
Old 07-11-2016, 08:16 AM   #13
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A practiced marksman, know his rifle. On the side matches this last weekend I took 1st for Long Range Bolt Action Military Rifle, 3rd place on the Long Range Single Shot Rifle, 4th on the Long Range Lever Action Rifle. Those were just the side matches, on the main match I took 1st in my Category and scored 14th overall. How was your weekend Melvin?

It is all about practicing.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 08:29 AM   #14
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I didn't watch the whole video, but did watch the first 6 minutes or so. He swapped mags at 4:25 and again at 5:51; so the second one was by far the faster used, and even it was a over the course of a minute & a half, give or take five seconds. Assuming a bolt gun with the same magazine capacity (remington 7615 or similar), 1 shot every 3 seconds shots from a seated or kneeling position like that isn't a deal-breaker at all. The first magazine lasted something like 3 1/2 minutes; or a shot every seven seconds or so. Slow.

Overall, it works out to right at a shot every five seconds; plenty doable with a bolt-action.

I'd MUCH rather have a semiauto. But to answer the question of "would a bolt-action have sufficed"; the answer is absolutely yes, at least for as much of it as I spent the time watching.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 11:52 AM   #15
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the hell it aint a deal breaker. did you not see the rapidfire parts? I think some were just hail Mary's at a moving vehicle, but not all A bolt action would not have a prayer of matching the repeat hit times at those ranges ( especially if hitting anything smaller than a barn)

Last edited by justme; 07-11-2016 at 05:25 PM.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 11:52 AM   #16
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there were several segments at several shots per second, definitely NOT feasible with a bolt action. Not even close.

Last edited by justme; 07-11-2016 at 05:24 PM.
 
Old 07-11-2016, 05:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
there were several segments at several shots per second, definitely NOT double with a bolt action. Not even close.
Just to be fair, I went back & watched the rest. As I said above, I originally only watched the first 6 minutes, but you're right; it got faster after that, for maybe a minute or so.

Also as said above, I'd MUCH rather have a semiauto. A semiauto is a better combat gun than a bolt-action. I don't recall anyone here ever having said differently, but I'm not all-knowing and may have missed it or forgotten it.

Would be nice to know how many guys were actually shooting during the fast-firing part; but there were definitely multiple guys, at least one of which was firing full auto. A bolt gun obviously can't do full auto, but neither can my semi, and I personally don't care that much about full auto anyway. Simple semiauto, I can get two or three hits per second at realistic personal-defense range; and that's as good as I'm ever going to have it.

I'm curious about your thoughts on him calling for the guy to get up there with a SAW..? Regardless of what gun I'm using, (as you often say) I'm not in the military and won't have their re-supply; and certainly won't have a buddy with a SAW for backup. Does that mean that in 'the real world' which this situation was, that even a full-auto M16, even in the hands of a recon marine, was 'inadequate'..?

Point simply being, if we're going to use the actions in this incident - or the weapons in this incident - as a benchmark, then even the semiauto AR (my favorite longarm) simply MUST be categorized as 'inadequate'. Because these guys were pro's (which I'm not), they were young (which I'm not), they had full-auto guns (which I don't), and they were STILL calling for belt-fed support.
 
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