At the range - Arms Locker
Arms Locker Gun Forum
Go Back   Arms Locker > Gun Forums > Rifles


Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By John in AR
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-25-2016, 12:59 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 4,005
At the range

Cleaning up pics & junk on my phone and came across this from last november. Target is an AR500 reduced silhouette, 12x20 inches; out at 103 feet away. Ammo was wolf steel-cased stuff. Gun is a typical 16" carbine with a vortex sparc red dot and CMC trigger. Starting from low-ready with safety on.


Times aren't awesome by any stretch, but in my defense it's out at 100+ feet.
jbaker30 likes this.

Last edited by John in AR; 04-25-2016 at 01:04 PM.
 
Remove Ads
Old 04-25-2016, 01:29 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2016

Posts: 20
Good shootin there John! Certainly better than me.
JB
 
Old 04-25-2016, 02:41 PM   #3
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 4,005
Thanks. Fwiw, this is what .223 fmj does even to AR500 at ~100 feet.


Some of the hits that look smaller were shot at 60-70 yards; at 100 yards, it doesn't mark the steel much at all. The biggest divots were from the 34-yard shooting, which is as close as I do centerfire rifle on steel.

That's why they say to shoot steel with rifle at 100 yards minimum. I prefer the closer ranges for timed drills, so I just accept that it's going to gradually chew up my targets. I figure it's part of the cost of shooting; after a while they need replacing, but it takes a lot of hits.
 
 
Old 04-25-2016, 02:52 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2014
From: USA

Posts: 3,050
at such ranges, why not just use the 22 unit (without the can)? you know very well that the 223 WITH the can is every bit as "tame' as the .22 unit without the can. So the 22lr practice is fully transferable to 223 ability, at .22 type ranges. (ie, 75 yds and less).
 
Old 04-25-2016, 02:55 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2014
From: USA

Posts: 3,050
I never saw the point of the double tap with the 223. softpoints, pretty much hitting anywhere, REALLY mess people up. If you put the sights on him, have a good trigger and aint blowing your ears out, he's had it, if he's fully exposed at sub 75 yds.
 
Old 04-25-2016, 02:57 PM   #6
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2014
From: USA

Posts: 3,050
low ready, these days, means gun shouldered, which is bs. low ready means held across your thighs, as you'd walk with it for hours on end,and it's a LOT slower that way. but nobody's walking around with the gun at high ready for more than a few minutes. Doing so is so tiring that you'll be just as slow and probably miss from the fatigue. Put the rifle across the thighs, saftey on, finger outside of the guard, and things always slow down .50 sec or so, (or you miss a lot).
 
Old 04-25-2016, 04:30 PM   #7
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 4,005
I start with the gun down, not shouldered. Not across my thighs; not sure how I'd do that standing up.

I sometimes do shoot with the suppressor, but often don't. It's slower due to the added muzzle weight. My suppressor is an older one; 20-some ounces, which is definitely a factor out at the end of the muzzle. Also, wolf steel ammo has a more nasty, spiky pressure curve than most ammo and will actually wear out a gas port substantially quicker than higher-end ammo; and the suppressor exacerbates the nasty-spiky even more. So I rarely use the suppressor with steel-cased ammo.

On the double-tap thing, it's not really necessary, but it lets me work on trigger-recover time, and frankly I just enjoy it. Also, other than when hunting, I buy somewhat into the old adage that anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice.
 
Old 04-25-2016, 06:05 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2014
From: USA

Posts: 3,050
the rifle means war, and war means you minimally expose yourself, or you wont be around long. So EYE aint hanging around, fully exposed, to fire any "extra" shots. All there is to using a realistic low ready is let your arms hang naturally, with the rifle between your hands. You don't hunt all day with the rifle held at "port arms".
 
Old 04-25-2016, 06:06 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2014
From: USA

Posts: 3,050
that can's 2x too heavy. is it all-steel or something?
 
Old 04-25-2016, 06:38 PM   #10
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 4,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
that can's 2x too heavy. is it all-steel or something?
AAC M4-2000, an early version. The new versions are something like 17 oz, this one was 22 or 23 oz. It's from 2003, so it's old tech by today's standards. But for its time it was one of the better units commercially available. It's only 1 1/2" inch in diameter and 7 inches long. It uses a QD flash-hider mount and only adds 5 inches to the OAL gun length, which is one of the reasons I like it. It's also rated for unlimited belt-fed full auto fire, so it should last my lifetime with no maintenance or major degradation in performance.
 
Old 04-25-2016, 07:13 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2014
From: USA

Posts: 3,050
I don't believe in practicing with the can in place (much) I have never put enough rds thru a hi-v rifle can of my design to know what the baffles" service life" is. i know that it's over 500 rds tho. People kept buying them before I could run more ammo thru them. Since I can repack one in half an hour, I see no reason to care about it. While I"m making one tube, it only takes a few minutes to make another one, so i don't care about the aluminum tube life being "only" a few thoudand rds,either. I've never had one fail in any way. So while making one, make at least one more for caching and don't worry about "durability". When your can is costing you just half a day's labor. $100 for the local shop and $200 tax, as vs $800 for a commercial can and $200 tax, you're ahead to make 3. :-) cause you've got a much lighter can at the end of it all. Some commercial 223 cans are several thousand $, guys. People are nuts to pay it. Once that machinery is set up, they can make a can in an hour.

I much prefer the can to be 10 ozs. I hate it that 10.5" "skinny" barrels are so hard to get. The heavy barrel is stupid in that length. obviously, the guy buying such a gun wants something that's handy, so why make it weigh an extra 1 lb? that's retarded. Not 1% are going to make it full auto, and it's illegal to do so for 99%, too, since 1986. Such new mg's can only be made, owned or sold to cops, the military or other title II makers.

Last edited by nikto; 04-25-2016 at 07:29 PM.
 
Old 04-26-2016, 07:01 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 4,005
Understand completely; it's just personal preference one way or the other. I'm not going to fabricate my own centerfire rifle suppressor (although it's certainly do-able), so this one gives me a lifetime solution with no replacement or rebuilding. I just hate maintenance and most disposable things in general (disposable pens, high-maintenance vehicles, whatever). This provides a lifetime solution with literally zero maintenance, so to me makes it worth the extra 10-12 ounces to avoid repeated rebuilding/replacing over the years.

Don't know how many rounds I have through it at this point. Less than a thousand a year probably, so over the course of 13 years, maybe 6-8k or so in a couple different guns.

I just enjoy shooting anymore. Used to be, I enjoyed the tinkering & experimenting with 'things'; now I more enjoy tinkering with my abilities instead of with variations on the gear itself. That said, I have tinkered with some stuff in the past 2-3 years - better triggers on some guns, ambidextrous safety on a couple of the CAR's, etc - but not anything really major.
 
Old 04-26-2016, 07:32 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2014
From: USA

Posts: 3,050
I can disengage the standard safety pretty well with the left hand, but re-engaging it is a bit slow/awkward. When you have the ambi, you'll need to shave the levers a bit, or they'll strike your forefinger knuckle. try head shots at 25 yds in 1.5 seconds, or chests at 50 yds, or chests at 25 yds in 1.0 second. This is fairly tough with standard trigger pulls and sights. With optic or the V notched, "eared" rear sight, and a trigger job, these tests come easily. These times are with the rifle held across the front of your thighs, safety engaged, finger outside of the guard.
 
Old 04-26-2016, 08:31 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 4,005
The ambi safety I have on my two main guns is a short-throw 60-degree, with the right-side lever shorter than the left to avoid accidental activation. I'm left-handed but almost always shoot right-handed, so this safety lets me disengage normally with the thumb, and re-engage with the first knuckle of the first finger. Sounds complicated, but it's very natural and faster, since I've learned/conditioned myself to make it a one-piece movement when taking that same finger off the trigger.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
I...try head shots at 25 yds in 1.5 seconds, or chests at 50 yds, or chests at 25 yds in 1.0 second. This is fairly tough with standard trigger pulls and sights...
That's a big part of the reason to have better-than-standard triggers and sights...

That video above wasn't head shots, but was on a reduced silhouette, the body of which (which is all I'm shooting when on a timer like this) is 12x16, and has the corners removed from even that; basically it's shaped like an oval with its widest dimensions being 12x16, not a full 12x16 rectangle. It's also 36% farther away than the 25 yards you're talking about; giving the equivalent of a target 36% smaller than if used at 25 yards.

Two shots from gun down (off the shoulder), safety on, finger outside the trigger, last run was 0.89 total from timer to second shot, and average of the three was 1.1 seconds. I'm sure there are a lot of guys who do substantially better (in fact I know a couple of them personally) but I can live with those times.

edit - I'd be happy to see what can be done with an airsoft or simunition gun on a timer, at even eight or ten yards.

Last edited by John in AR; 04-26-2016 at 08:34 AM.
 
Old 07-25-2016, 11:18 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2004
From: Central Arkansas

Posts: 4,005
I came across & re-read an article you posted back in the 90’s that I’d forgotten about; and it reminded me of this thread.

From here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
I never saw the point of the double tap with the 223...

From the article, talking about .223 softpoints:
Quote:
The SP also fails to pierce a windshield, so load every other round in your magazine with the new steel-cored 62-gr. SS-109 ball ammo and fire a “double-tap” (like your supposed to do, anyway…”

See, it’s perfectly ok to change our opinions and thought processes as time goes on and we learn, grow, and widen our experiences and knowledge.
 
Old 07-25-2016, 11:29 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Joined: Jun 2016
From: USA

Posts: 1,430
haven't got an airsoft AR (yet) A lot depends upon wifey's passing her Toefl test of English. They gave her a pass for the summer semester and she's studying hard, so we'll see. It's possible, if she fails, that she can pass it in time for the second half of the semster, in October. Her cooking and her (very simple) taste in food is taking weight off of me. I'll be at my goal by xmas.
 
Reply

  Arms Locker > Gun Forums > Rifles



Search tags for this page
john in ar attest tame
,
john in ar liar
,
riot john in ar
,
short throw safety john in ar
,
tame 22
,

video john in ar

Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes






Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2003 - 2011 Arms Locker. All rights reserved.