650 ft lbs, from a 3" .45 aint hard to get - Arms Locker
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Old 06-11-2016, 03:55 PM   #1
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650 ft lbs, from a 3" .45 aint hard to get

if you use .45 Super brass, have a fully supported barrel, and know how to do it. you use a drill, dremel and file to turn an 80 gr swc shape, as long as a 165 gr jhp, out of copper or aluminum rod. Then you hp it, getting rid of 3 grs of weight, then you hollowbase it, huge conical cavity, getting rid of 5 more grs.

you have to load this bullet over a LOT more of ALLIANT bullseye powder than seems reasonable. and I mean a LOT more. Start at 7.0 grs, with no mag in the gun, wearing heavy gloves and "hugging" a tree, or clamp down the gun and pull the trigger with a string. :-) move up half a grain of powder at a time, looking carefully at the case and miking its od at the web. you're going to be up to MANY grs of powder by the time you reach your goal, but be smart about it, start 'low" and work up slowly. If the case bulges more than a plus P .45 load does in your barrel, beware. Chronograph each shot and if the 1/2 gr increase in powder does not show a corresponding increase in velocity, BACK OFF , because you are exceeding your safety limit. You will probably find that 7.0 grs of Bullseye and such a bullet do not even cycle your slide.

You have to know how to pack the hollowbase cavity with a weighed charge of powder. Put a plastic shim over the cavity, invert the bullet and load it into the (also charged) cartridge case. All you need for 650 ft lbs is 2070 fps. While that sounds like a lot from a shorty .45, it's easily attained with such a bullet. No other powder has enough "octane" to do this, tho. This load (if the bullet is a Split Nose) renders your 6.7"long, 24 oz .45 more effective than the .30 carbine (using ball ammo) ever was, when both are fired at 10 ft.

beats the Makarov (same size and weight) all to hell.
 
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Old 06-11-2016, 04:05 PM   #2
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, when both are fired at 10 ft.

beats the Makarov (same size and weight) all to hell.
Who's shooting at only 10 Feet? I would take the Makarov. Why go through all that trouble? Sportsman's Guide has Silver Bear HP's for only $15.00.
 
Old 06-11-2016, 04:29 PM   #3
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I like experimenting, and I've modified & tested bullets & loads as 'odd' as 82-grain .45Colt at more than 2400fps. But if I were to attempt to mill bullets out of metal rod, I'd want something a lot more precise and repeatable than 'a drill, a dremel, and a file'.
 
 
Old 06-11-2016, 04:37 PM   #4
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that gear is plenty precise enough. altho I forgot to mention you need to mike the bullets od. the huge cavity in the base creates a "skirt" on the base that will "squeeze down" to take the rifling and it really seals the gases behind the bullet, too.

if you'd like to get another 150 fps, what you do is ream out the rifling for 3/4" ahead of the chamber, creating what is called "paradox' rifling. have the bore be larger at the rear than at the rifling's beginning. This reduces a lot of the chamber pressure, letting the bullet get going a lot easier, letting you put another 2-3 grs of bullseye under the bullet.


the pressures on such very lw bullets are VERY low, cause they get started moving SO easily. if this were not true, Mag safe's 2550 fps 45 gr 357 sig load would blow up guns. That is a FACTORY load, safe in all 357 sigs. I'm talking about a custom load, worked up carefully in YOUR gun, big difference and a LOT larger caseful of powder, with a hollowbase cavity as big as 000 buck pellet. The Magsafe load has a plain base.
 
Old 06-11-2016, 04:38 PM   #5
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small differences in contours mean nothing with such loads, John. Keep the weight and diameter of each bullet consistent with your other bullets, and you'll be plenty safe enough. the bullets can compress or expand enough that being "off" diameter by .001" means nothing. Cast bullets are off that much, pretty commonly, cause people dont slug their bores and size bullets accordingly

Last edited by nikto; 06-11-2016 at 05:34 PM.
 
Old 06-11-2016, 04:49 PM   #6
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All this split-lip business is fine, but I'd just shoot him a bunch of times with the Makarov and call it a day.
 
Old 06-11-2016, 06:10 PM   #7
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Whaddaya figure the heaviest bullet weight in .45ACP is that you could adapt that design, for performance in a 4.5-5 inch barrel? Doesn't have to be expanding, more of an intellectual exercise. Not even thinking 1911A1's,but maybe a SIG,CZ etc.
 
Old 06-11-2016, 06:20 PM   #8
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you dont want a heavier bullet. the idea is AP and hi levels of energy. make it out of lead if you want, settle for 500 ft lbs, tops. you'll have to bring the velocity way down, which ruins the entire concept. 70 grs is like a very heavy 223 bullet, and the velocity of this .45 load is what an M4 has left at 200 yds or so, using a 70 gr bullet. It's still a helluva good lick. I have no idea what the lower threshhold of velocty is to speed still get the Split Nose design to break in half and still penetrate adequately. I was always looking for MAX speed, not minimum.
 
Old 06-11-2016, 07:13 PM   #9
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...the bullets can compress or expand enough that being "off" diameter by .001" means nothing. Cast bullets are off that much, pretty commonly, cause people dont slug their bores and size bullets accordingly
I know; even bullets from the same mold cavity will vary that much based on how hot they were cast and how fast they were cooled. I'm just thinking that consistent results that stay within that .001" would be either sketchy or hugely laborious to maintain, using a dremel and file on round bar stock.
 
Old 06-11-2016, 07:55 PM   #10
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it's not. the only exactitude demanded is on the bore-contact surface. these bullets are very short, you need a lot of taper for feed reliability, and the cone-shaped base-cavity means that only about 3/16" of length (9mm) is "solid" bore contact (without some 'give", by dint of that cavity.. Just be careful with how you mike it, stop using the dremel at about .005" oversize and go to the crocus cloth (held flat with the file) for the last .001".
 
Old 06-12-2016, 05:24 AM   #11
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...be careful with how you mike it, stop using the dremel at about .005" oversize and go to the crocus cloth (held flat with the file) for the last .001".
That's what I mean about laborious and repeatable. Hand-sanding each bullet to a specific (within .001-.002) size, keeping them round and true; while simultaneously keeping the hand-drilled hollowbases & hollowpoints consistent & true.

Maybe ten bullets per hour...? Maybe five? Even if it's a doubtful twenty, if I wanted uber-light bullets in quantity (I don't) I'd lean much more toward just buying them from a custom maker like CMA or someone.
 
Old 06-12-2016, 06:43 AM   #12
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first the proof of concept. you can pay some shop $50 to give you the exact rod diameter, then all you have to do is shape it. They can be obviously different by quiter a bit, but still group 10" at 10 yds. If all you want to test is the velocities, I told you how to do that, with melting out the lead cores and replacing the lead with epoxy. that's what mag safe does. While you've got the set up, you run all 50 of the hp's, then all 50 of the hollowbases, etc, it goes faster than you'd think. If you have access to a lathe, you can shape a lathe bit to the exact profile, set a stop on the cross feed, and be within .002, finish with file and crocus cloth. A chinese hobby lathe is $600 from Harbor Freight.
 
Old 06-12-2016, 09:30 AM   #13
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f...If all you want to test is the velocities, I told you how to do that, with melting out the lead cores and replacing the lead with epoxy.
When did you tell me that..?
 
Old 06-16-2016, 08:26 AM   #14
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