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Old 08-23-2016, 07:39 PM   #1
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AR the greatest?

Was down in Alton today picking up a couple guns an at a pawn shop ran in to a former tunnel rat, told me about the time they captured one complex, medical complex in it. The wounded there that had been hit with M16 fire were not wounded that bad compared to the ones hit with 30 cal. He now has AKs an M1As. He was Major.
Don't get me wrong, I like the AR an have several (Some did fall overboard in that storm) most are 16in an 20in. Some have straight stocks, couple have colapseable stocks, two nice retro builds. Have them scoped, an some with red dots,some irons Do no own or ever will own a 10in after shooting a friends. Accuracy was terrible, muzzle blast was fierce. Like the 223 to shoot an I shoot a hell of a lot of it weekly. It is not the most wonderful far shooting most accurate do everything round in the world by a long shot. Kinda feeble pass 250 yds. or so.
Will never own another AK or SKS
To hit something an have it stay hit there is nothing like a 30.06 or a 308
Now for the next week or so will have to hear how great a 10in with a can is at making unbelieveable long shots an destroying everything in it's path.
 
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Old 08-23-2016, 08:40 PM   #2
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Fwiw, I'm not deluded enough to think that my 5.56 AR's can do everything. If I believed that, I wouldn't have picked up a .300 Blackout AR and a .300 Blackout single-shot carbine. .

But I do believe they can do pretty much anything that I personally NEED a defensive carbine to do; I really do believe they're incredibly versatile. But fact is, in the Combat Focus Carbine class I recently did, the one guy that outperformed me pretty much all day was using an AK74. So the AR is certainly no magic wand - the fact that that guy could probably kill me with either platform makes it unavoidable to acknowledge that the skill level of the carpenter is more important than the brand of hammer.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 04:01 AM   #3
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Joe, you've never shot one with a silencer on it, that's all. You're flinching from the blast. If I was not going to silence it, I'd want a 16", ,and if you weren't too cheap to use good softpoints, you'd know that such a combo, at 300 yds, still hits a LOT harder than the .38 snub (at 10 ft) that you think is such hot shyte. Anyone with any sense would rather have a failure to stop at 300 yds than at 3 yds. 16" is 55 grs at 2900 fps. With a boattail, you'll lose at most 700 fps by 300 yds, leaving you with 600 ft lbs, along with violent expansion and the temporary cavity effect. There's 10" AR's that are 1 MOA, and has been for many years now.

Last edited by justme; 08-24-2016 at 04:09 AM.
 
 
Old 08-24-2016, 04:12 AM   #4
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I can pop a 10" AR in half in 5 seconds, hide it in a pack. In 10 seconds, I can reassemble it and fire. The scope mount can be see thru, and the mount returns to zero handily. The trigger job, ambi safety, and luminous sights are drop in. The sights look over the silencer just fine. The AK may come close, but it's a heavy, awkward clunk, needs half assed scope mounts, even with a custom safety, it's slow to go from low ready to a hit. If you get one in 223, it might be ok, but it you use the AK rds, you'll be hard pressed to stay in ammo if shtf.

there is no other rifle that has all these vital (for shtf) attributes, and it also does fine on deer, hogs, varmints, small game, and combat matches. So instead of wasting time and money on a half a dozen guns, none of which are as versatile, it makes sense to have just this one. What it can't do, doesn't need to be done (with a rifle).

Last edited by justme; 08-24-2016 at 04:18 AM.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 06:33 AM   #5
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Most ARs come apart in seconds, what makes yours so much different? Remember years ago when Colt was the only game in town an had the screw front pivot an we made pins to replace them? How do you know what goes on any of mine? Have ambi on all mine except one. When FordPerfect gets back from Florida vacation, will have him take some pics but not of the end. Noisy? ask a couple neighbors who has shot one.
One time I did buy 500 rounds of factory hardball to put up, rest is all my handloads. Been a very long time since any gun I own has shot factory stuff.
Why are you so scared of recoil or flash that you flinch so bad? Practice. Come on up, so we can do some shooting again, have a friend with a machine shop that has a 300yd. range in his back yard, no worries there, Joe F. is there sometimes with his stuff. Guy is also building a enclosed pistol range so can shoot in bad weather. Bad thing would be FordPerfect would want to bring his Mosins out but we could use them as target stands! About all they are good for!
Speaking of 38s, Yesterday I found a model 36 no dash 2in RB new in the box, will pick it up Friday (3 day wait in IL) Have not looked year up on it yet
Brought home a M&P 5 screw dated 1946 and another model 17-3 both are 98%guns. 17 will be going down the road (a very short distance) Monday.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 10:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
So instead of wasting time and money on a half a dozen guns, none of which are as versatile, it makes sense to have just this one. What it can't do, doesn't need to be done (with a rifle).
Melvin, are you a bit of a simpleton? Time and time again we have explained to you that we own multiple firearms because not only we can, but it is fun! Personally I have the appropriate firearms to compete in 5 different shooting disciplines as well as their side matches. How many disciplines can you compete in? Try and be a bit more flexible and versatile.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 10:46 AM   #7
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One trick pony.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 11:44 AM   #8
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I happen to like both the AK platform AND the AR/M16/M4A1 types... I just happen to prefer the 5.56 in at least 18-20 inches of barrel. Yes,the shorter lengths work,but to me at least; there's a definite advantage to be had with the standard loadings available;not to mention a full length gas system.
Always a series of trade-offs in conjunction with what fits different people.
Frankly,I would NOT want to be hit with either. Both can/will do for you.
One of my favorite Uly loadings for the 7.62x39 was constructed in a similar fashion to the 7N6 5.45x39 complete with the air space. THAT was both accurate and would make horrific wounds.
I could personally say the same thing with old school M193 ball in a 1-12 twist 20 inch M16A1... Within the sweet spot of the ammo/rifle combo it would make Vlad The Impaler throw up.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 03:52 PM   #9
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YOU are the one who claims 10" aint accurate. There's no reason for that belief at all. EYE am the one being realistic. you wont HAVE ear protection when it's for real, and yo wont shoot nearly as well without it, either. the can deals with that problem, in addition to helping to not "call in" other problems, and not run off game. Not having flash at night is another huge advantage. there's no recoil to a 223 AR, that's not the point. There's also no reason to tolerate having one damned bit more recoil than is necessary to achieve the job, cause it slows down repeat hits. Most shots in combat miss, so yes, repeat hit speed DOES matter.

what speed is required for ball to 'work" is irrelevant. No civilian is stuck with ball ammo.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 03:54 PM   #10
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Nobody is going to ever know if I touched a gun, much less shot one, much less people I don't know. Best ask jf if he's ok with such discussion online. I bet he aint.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 04:18 PM   #11
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Melvin, tell us the last time you were in combat? With all this knowledge it must have been recently!
 
Old 08-24-2016, 04:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
YOU are the one who claims 10" aint accurate. There's no reason for that belief at all. EYE am the one being realistic. you wont HAVE ear protection when it's for real, and yo wont shoot nearly as well without it, either. the can deals with that problem, in addition to helping to not "call in" other problems, and not run off game. Not having flash at night is another huge advantage. there's no recoil to a 223 AR, that's not the point. There's also no reason to tolerate having one damned bit more recoil than is necessary to achieve the job, cause it slows down repeat hits. Most shots in combat miss, so yes, repeat hit speed DOES matter.

what speed is required for ball to 'work" is irrelevant. No civilian is stuck with ball ammo.
Ten inch barrels can be VERY accurate. What I said was that I PREFERa heavier cartridge(like the 7.62x39 )in a 10.5 inch barrel vs a 5.56 or 5.45 in the same. My own gjettofabulous M92 shoots shockingly good in my hands even given the AK sights. I STILL consider the 5.56 and the like to give better exterior and terminal ballistics in a longer barrel,with MY own preference(not TELLING others what they should do) being the 18-20 inch barrels. Not saying I'd turn down a 10.5 inch AR pistol off paper/FTF for the right price,but I stated that the overall performance of the cartridge does better in MY hands with a longer barrel than SBR/pistol length,and I stand by that statement.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 04:28 PM   #13
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No use trying to talk, things get twisted. Heard this same nonsense for years.
 
Old 08-24-2016, 05:59 PM   #14
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Does shooting up the PX or beating guard dogs count as combat?
 
Old 08-24-2016, 07:48 PM   #15
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there's nothing bs about it. and I dont recall your ever coming CLOSE to my scores in matches, either. Did I miss something?
 
Old 08-24-2016, 08:38 PM   #16
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Melvin, are these recent matches, or those matches you shot 40 years ago?
 
Old 10-08-2016, 06:52 AM   #17
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A few questions for Melvin the ****ing know it all. From post #3 above
#1 What makes you think I have never shot a AR with a silencer?
#2 What makes you think I flinch?
#3 What makes you think I don't use softpoints?
#4 How can you compare a 38 to a 223?
#5 Why do you think nobody in the world uses headgear but you?
Can you answer those five questions without getting off topic or twisting everything around?
I didn't think so.

Last edited by BigBassMan; 10-08-2016 at 06:57 AM.
 
Old 10-08-2016, 07:18 AM   #18
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During the 28 years I served my country, I carried 2 different weapon systems. For the first 13 years I carried the 7.62mm NATO FN FAL (FN C1A1 Cdn name). For the last 15 years of my service I carried a licensed copy of the M16A2 (C7 Rifle Cdn name). So I am experienced with both.

I was for 6 years engaged in Service Rifle Competition out to 500 yards with both. Both rifles have their good points both have their bad points. This decision is based on years of experience. While I sold my personally owned FN many years ago, I am still able to reach out and touch with a .308 diameter bullet, the one in my M1 Garand. For gun games and such in an urban environment an AR variant might possibly be a better choice. The important thing is that your decision be based on actual experience than fantasy as some peoples decisions are.

 
Old 10-08-2016, 07:52 AM   #19
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everybody flinches in rapidfire with shorty AR 223. Silencers being illegal in Ill and me not being there to make them makes your having shot any of them in rapidfire, most unlikely, so a very safe bet. Your being too cheap to have softpoints in 223 tells us all we need to know on this subject. Claiming that 10" AR are wildliy inaccurate is SO easy to refute that there's no need to bother with doing so. Even garand is smarter than that.
 
Old 10-08-2016, 07:54 AM   #20
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people who are unable to think in conceptual terms just can't be saved. At the 300 yd realistic max range for realistic shtf combat, the 10" 223 still hits a LOT harder than your .38 snub does at 10 ft. So if your 38 has enough power, so does the shorty 223. since the .38 is being used at ranges where 1/4 second is enough to kill you, the pistol needs a LOT more power, too. At 300 yds, pretty much any hit is going to render him unable to hit you, especially assuming that you've got sense enough to not be standing there, fully esposed. That might be pushing things, tho, for you to be that smart. There's no need to run out there and scalp him, so let him bleed out. He wont be able to charge 300 yds and do anything to you, for a fact.


You have to be able to think in terms of something beyond your nose to be able to see that, however. And you've shown us that you can't do so.
NOBODY can rely upon ear protection staying in place once things get violent, dude. To make the claim that you do just shows how little you know about combat. Getting slammed down onto objects by explosions, having to run and dive for cover, etc, and that stuff's GONE from your ears. You're like garand, in that you're too lazy, cheap, apathetic, chicken**** and inept to make a can. In ILL, you'd have to pay $3000 a year to have one, and I KNOW too well to believe you'd ever bother.

Last edited by justme; 10-08-2016 at 08:01 AM.
 
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