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Old 05-04-2016, 03:29 PM   #1
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Cooper said situations change needs. I say

that's bs. He said that if he lived on the Zambezi river in Rhodesia, he'd carry an 8" M29, not a 1911. what a crock. One of the most dangerous places in the world to be a white man, and you want something THAT ineffective as a fighting tool,, vs AK's? I think not. Far better to be "undergunned" vs Kudu and gemsbok (with 1911) than be fighting men with nothing more than a club of a revolver like that. Also, in that heat and crud, lug around 3.5 lbs of something that ineffective? No reason for it. Rechamber a spare barrel for the 460, load 160 gr swc's to 1500 fps, and you can reach impala at 100 yds. That's plenty far enough, when you LIVE out there, amongst them.

American Handgunner handgun hunter columnist JD jones once wrote up a S african farmer, paralysed from the waist down by polio, who hunted with an XP100, DRAGGING himself along the ground. He had many skull mounts of plainsgame that he'd shot in the center-top of the head, as they fed or drank. How far away was THAT feasible, hmm? :-) until JD left him a TC contender, the Remington was the only handgun that the farmer owned.

the need for the handgun to be a fighting tool ALWAYS takes precedence over it being a hunting instrument. maybe you can get away with a "sport only" gun as your hunting rifle, in "normal times", but I'd never risk it. Sure, auto rifles are illegal in most of africa, so what? :-) people do all sorts of things that are illegal. Jeff just couldn't get past the idea of NOT having a "boy" to carry his stuff. So it was NEVER going to be a Scout rifle as the fighting tool. There'd BE an AK at hand, count on it. He even said that he set the Scout up as a bolt action cause autos weren't legal in Africa. So much for it being a "tool to change a subject into a citizen", eh?

Last edited by nikto; 05-04-2016 at 03:34 PM.
 
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Old 05-04-2016, 03:45 PM   #2
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if you've got a decent pistol, it can do anything that's needed (to be done with a pistol) If it can't, it aint much of a choice. if I lived on the zambezi and wanted to be able to take game with my pistol, I'd probably wear an alloy commander, due to the threat level. However, I aint interested, in Rhodesia or trying to take plains game with a handgun. If I was, I'd find a way to do it with a pocket 9, just to prove that my gun and i were capable of it. Like dig a pit blind beside the only waterhole in many square miles of savannah. Could also fence-off the water for many, many square miles, and allow only one way in, (past my blind) :-)

Last edited by nikto; 05-04-2016 at 03:50 PM.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 05:46 AM   #3
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In Africa with just a 9mm? Don't think so. What did they call it when a charging Cape Buffalo rolled on a person an made a greasy spot in the dust after a 375 H&H mag. bounced of his skull? POUNDED As much as I liked my 375, would want something a little more powerful.
By the way, a friend from Norway is building a school in Uganda, Interesting story an different thoughts on the world. All being done by donations.
 
 
Old 05-05-2016, 08:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
...Could also fence-off the water for many, many square miles, and allow only one way in, (past my blind) :-)
That sounds extremely problematic. IE, whose land is it and do they mind me fencing it off? Not to mention that substantial amounts of fencing - especially fencing heavy enough to divert large african plains animals when they're trying to get to water - sounds very expensive. Wonder how many years' worth of food could I just go ahead & buy for that much money instead..?

On cooper; been there, discussed that. When I first met him 23-24 years ago, he struck me as a pontificating asshat. In the admittedly-few interactions I had with him before he died, nothing happened that changed changed that perception.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 08:13 AM   #5
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99% live there with just a machete, Joe. :-) I think Jeff meant ( and I certainly did) that there'd be a rifle at hand, also. He was just speaking of the pistol he'd choose, and so was I. I'd not be there without the AR, silencer and .22 unit. Those are basic minimums for any place I'd live. They can be arranged in wifey's home country, too, which is the only place I'd consider living, other than the US, and I'd not go there without a minimum of 50k in the bank (left here in the US, mostly, some of it buried as gold coins tho) Take maybe 5 with me over there, most of it as gold coins (made into jewelry) CAn always transfer cash via debit cards and bank accounts. But I"d never trust their banks or govt very far. I'd also not go there without at least 20k per year of assured income, from some source here in the US. That would allow 10k per year to be spent on compontents over there, which would be a lot of shooting for that country. Enough to make you a top competitor, actually. Labor is so cheap that if you took the bullet molds for .9mm and .45, swaging dies from corbin to make 22lr cases into 223 bullets, molds for the cores, a dillion press and a star sizer luber, you could trade bullets and ammo for enough .22's, brass and components to shoot as much as anyone in that country.:-) you'd have to bribe somebody, doubtless, to get a reloading/casting license, but 1k down and $500 a year would handle that just fine!
 
Old 05-05-2016, 08:15 AM   #6
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who says you need to divert the big ones? labor there is DIRT cheap and they use thorn bomas for the job. Nobody said anything about doing so for 100's of miles ya know. $3 a day is BIG wages there, John.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 08:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
..Nobody said anything about doing so for 100's of miles ya know...
I don't claim to know how wide-spaced the waterholes are in Zimbabwe. Just taking your words about fencing off the water for "many, many square miles" at face value.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 08:55 AM   #8
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naturally, one has to look at the terrain. there may be no materials for fencing in many areas, too many water sources in others. I don't need to kill dozens of each species to prove the pocket 9 can do the job. Nor is it about meat, with me, cooper or anyone else. That's always bs, nobody spends that sort of time and money just for meat.

no 375 ever bounced off of any buffs skull, unless it was a very poor angled shot and a 600 nitro would have done the same, given the same hit/angle. Elgin gates and others have taken buff with no more than a 357 handgun. gates shot his from a tree. Ted Nugent shot his Buff in the spine with a 10mm, so that was PROBABLY from a tree stand. Most big cat records were shot from baited tree machans. People tend to forget that. :-) You're not allowed to hunt dangerous African game alone, anyway. Dozens of all the species there have been taken with bow and arrow. They are nothing like as dangerous as "great hunters" claim them to be. Bell took 1000's of elephants with loads considerably less powerful than 308. He kept a big double rifle near to hand, held by a "boy". but there was no backup rifleman, just Bell. you can outrun an elephant if your are fit. their top speed is about 15 mph and they can't hold that speed for more than a few scores of yards.

Last edited by nikto; 05-05-2016 at 09:01 AM.
 
Old 05-05-2016, 09:06 AM   #9
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There's more than one way to skin any cat, and making yourself less capable (vs men) to have some silly "advantage" vs game is bs. I'll restrict myself to an AK in a heartbeat, over having a 30-416 in a single shot, regardless of the "disadvantage" I might be under vs game. Men find ways to kill anything, with nothing more than spears.
 
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