big buck, running, nosedives from 223 hit - Arms Locker
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:37 AM   #1
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big buck, running, nosedives from 223 hit

 
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:10 AM   #2
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The 223 is almost identical in power to the original blackpowder loadings of the .45-70, so it's clearly more than powerful enough a LOT of things - if it's properly loaded.

Load it with varmint loads or armor-penetrating loads and it works well for varmints and penetrating armor. Load it with a good hunting bullet and it's good for hunting. One of the biggest problems with the 223 isn't with the 223; it's with rumdums who try to use varmint bullets or military bullets in inappropriate applications.
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Old 06-06-2016, 10:43 AM   #3
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no kidding. but I think you're a bit off about 45-70 levels of power. the 45-70 was 405 grs at 1500 fps, iIRC, which is 2000 ft lbs, about double what a 223 has. Now, you can argue that the 45-70 wasted half of its power on overpenetration (cause it did) and it didn't expand.
 
 
Old 06-06-2016, 11:17 AM   #4
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Could be, I don't shoot blackpowder anymore and have never loaded the .45-70. I was thinking it was roughly 400 grains at 1200fps, and 500 grains at 1100fps or so; could be wrong on that.

Either way, the 223's still 130%-140% of the power of a 44 mag revolver and 250% of the .357 magnum, neither of which are slouches.
 
Old 06-06-2016, 11:49 AM   #5
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Got me curious, so I looked some. (My comments in blue)

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:.45-70
Quote:
Here's what I found, let me know what else you need. BTW, I found a BC calculator at http://www.uslink.net/~tom1/calcbc/calcbc.htm#casts

.45-70-405 centerfire bp BC approx .303 max 60gr 1216 fps (1330 ft/lbs)
.45-70-500 centerfire bp BC approx .365 max 60gr 1130 fps (1417 ft/lbs)


From: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm....ck-powder.html
Quote:
.45-70 Government, Bullet Weight 405 Grains, Loaded With 50 Grains Fg Black Powder, Velocity 1,040 Feet Per Second. (972 ft/lbs)

.45-70 Government, Bullet Weight 405 Grains, Loaded With 60 Grains Fg Black Powder, Velocity 1,180 Feet Per Second. (1252 ft/lbs)

.45-70 Government, Bullet Weight 405 Grains, Loaded With 70 Grains Fg Black Powder, Velocity 1,280 Feet Per Second. (1473 ft/lbs)

.45-70 Government, Bullet Weight 500 Grains, Loaded With 50 Grains Fg Black Powder, Velocity 910 Feet Per Second. (919 ft/lbs)

.45-70 Government, Bullet Weight 500 Grains, Loaded With 60 Grains Fg Black Powder, Velocity 1,060 Feet Per Second. (1247 ft/lbs)

.45-70 Government, Bullet Weight 500 Grains, Loaded With 70 Grains Fg Black Powder, Velocity 1,130 Feet Per Second. (1417 ft/lbs)
From: http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Know...overnment.html
Quote:
At this time, a new cartridge was adopted, the .45-70 U.S Government. The .45-70 fired a .45 caliber 405 grain projectile over 70 grains of black powder for a muzzle velocity of roughly 1200fps. (1295 ft/lbs)

Those are about what I thought I remembered. Could be that the loadings were beefed up when winchester came out with their gun in the 1880's, versus the earlier 1873 springfield; I don't know, never used the caliber myself.
 
Old 06-06-2016, 05:15 PM   #6
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no reason to bother with it. a 12 ga auto, full of slugs, is far, far more versatile and capable of anything you'd use a 45-70 for. Modern 4570 is 200 grs at 2000 fps. but that's irrelevant for the discussion here. Given the short barrel I favor, 223 is more like just even with a 4" 44 mag, 800-900 ft lbs, which IS adequate, with good sp's and good hits.
 
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