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Old 08-16-2016, 07:51 AM   #1
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no challenge, game with a rifle

much less a shotgun. If serious, the silenced AR and .22 unit are what's needed, For sport, the pocket 9 suffices for deer, and the silenced pocket 22 is just right for rabbits and squirrels. No need to upset the neighbors. Since the pocket 9 is more effective than a 357 with jhp's (to 50 ft or so) it's perfect for a tree stand/blind, if using cammo, head net, scent-masker, and bait.
 
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Old 08-16-2016, 09:24 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by justme View Post
...ince the pocket 9 is more effective than a 357 with jhp's (to 50 ft or so)...
Because the 9 using a different style bullet or why? Basically, why couldn't the .357 be loaded to ballistically outdo anything the 9mm could.
 
Old 08-16-2016, 10:56 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by justme View Post
much less a shotgun. If serious, the silenced AR and .22 unit are what's needed, For sport, the pocket 9 suffices for deer, and the silenced pocket 22 is just right for rabbits and squirrels. No need to upset the neighbors. Since the pocket 9 is more effective than a 357 with jhp's (to 50 ft or so) it's perfect for a tree stand/blind, if using cammo, head net, scent-masker, and bait.
Except for the .22 pistol for small game, the others are illegal for Deer.
 
 
Old 08-16-2016, 11:54 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Terry G View Post
...the others are illegal for Deer.
I hadn't considered that. Pistol (even in 9mm) is legal in my area, but it has to have at least a 4" barrel; so no pocket-gun use.


But on the pocket 9 being 'more effective' than .357 with HP's, just to be sure I'm following - you mean because of the HP's in the .357?
 
Old 08-16-2016, 04:44 PM   #5
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A 170 gr, SWC loaded with 14 or so gr. of 2400 powder will do nicely in ALL my 357s including the model 60 3in. Or even a 649, and it DOES NOT make you look like a potato smuggler.
A 158 gr. SWC HP loaded with 5,5 Unique will do anything you need out of a 38. A little hot for Airweights to shoot 3 or 4 hundred at a time but that is what the steel frames are for.
9mm always seems puny to me. Ever wonder why they have to hold 15 or so rounds? Have to double tap everything.
Carry load for the 45 is Black Hills Ammo 185 gr. HP, read the stats an compare to 9mm. It is there in black an white.
FordPerfect has a 2in. 44mag. Should trade him out of it, would make a good carry gun.
 
Old 08-16-2016, 08:13 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BigBassMan View Post
...9mm always seems puny to me...
My appreciation for .38 & .357 was actually a big factor in my initial acceptance of, and then true appreciation of, the 9mm cartridge years ago. When I started actually chronographing factory ammo and my handloads both, it became apparent that case-size was pretty much unrelated to ability; and that the 'puny' 9mm (which was how I'd always thought of it) was by no means the puny performer in that group.

When a compact glock 19 gives 1253 fps with a 125-grainer, my subcompact glock 26 gives me a 115 grainer at 1203 fps (9bple), and even a sub-micro cm9 gives 100 grains at 1290 fps, that's a caliber that I can really appreciate & respect for self-defense purposes.

The 9mm solidly bests the .38 ballistically every time, and while it won't match top-end .357 loads, top-end 9mm loads will often match common .357 loads; again, completely respectable imo.

Last edited by John in AR; 08-16-2016 at 08:16 PM.
 
Old 08-17-2016, 06:35 AM   #7
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If the 9mm had so much stopping power going for it how come most police depts. dropped it for the 40? Several local an counties around here have went back to 45.
9 makes a good plinking round cause it it cheap to shoot an reload. Would like to find another 9 revolver an a 9 carbine so I could shoot up these barrels of ammo.
Sold the CZ so down to six 9s now. Might be up to seven tomorrow.
 
Old 08-17-2016, 09:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassMan View Post
If the 9mm had so much stopping power going for it how come most police depts. dropped it for the 40? Several local an counties around here have went back to 45.
9 makes a good plinking round cause it it cheap to shoot an reload. Would like to find another 9 revolver an a 9 carbine so I could shoot up these barrels of ammo.
Sold the CZ so down to six 9s now. Might be up to seven tomorrow.
Don't get me started on handgun-caliber carbines; I have several and they're a hoot... My marlin camp-9 runs over 600 ft/lbs with several factory loads, and over 700 ft/lbs with one of them. I was surprised to learn that, but that's what they clock over my chrono. That's up between .357 magnum and .41 magnum, both of which are very good calibers imo.

On the 9mm vs. .357 vs. .38 thing, a big issue that often hurts revolvers comparatively is that so many of the cartridges use such low pressure; which isn't really their fault, it's simply leftover reality from the fact that they were mostly designed so long ago. Even if loaded with +P loads, the .38 special (which I like) is still only running 20k psi, and there's only just so much that can be done at those power levels. Even a NON-+P 9mm load is running nearly twice that.

For that matter, max pressure for even the .357 magnum (again, which I really like), is exactly the same pressure as a NON-+P round of 9mm. In +P, the 9mm actually beats it by 10% (38.5k vs. 35k). Pressure isn't everything, but it does largely make up for reduced case capacity.

Again, not knocking the .38 or .357 calibers; I'm a fan of both, reload both, and shoot both calibers from both handguns and carbines. The top end of the .357 magnum can substantially outdo the 9mm, simply due to increased case capacity; but there's a lot of overlap in the two, capability-wise. If I'm launching a .35-caliber bullet weighing 100-125 grains at 1100-1300 fps, to me it just doesn't much matter which platform it got launched from. So I've got no beef at all with the .38 or .357 either one; I load and shoot both of them. But top-end 9mm loads are closer to common over-the-counter .357 loads than most people give it credit for.

Examples - my smith 681 runs 1260-1310 with factory remington 125-grain .357 JHP's; and my glock 19 runs a little over 1250 with factory 125-grain 9mm +P JHP's. Almost really a tomato / tomahto thing to me, performance-wise.

Again, the .357 can be loaded to much heavier, but often just isn't; even with factory "magnum" loadings.

On the other hand, if you really want to see what a .357 magnum is capable of, clock some loads from a .357 carbine; it'll blow your mind if you're not expecting it. Even from my little 16" carbine, a .357 magnum is more powerful than most .44 magnums are from a handgun. The 16" .44 magnum surpasses (believe it or not) a .454 Casull from a handgun, and the 20" .454 carbine puts out more power than most .30-06 loads do. I get 2,275 fps (2,987 ft/lbs) with winchester's 260-grain .454 Partition load. That's right up there in .300 win mag territory, from a 20" levergun.
 
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