13 factor recoil, 15 oz gun, same as 26factor, 30 oz gun - Arms Locker
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Old 06-12-2016, 09:01 AM   #1
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13 factor recoil, 15 oz gun, same as 26factor, 30 oz gun

in other words, VICIOUS recoil. 115 grs at 1150 fps in a pocket 9mm is same as 200 grs at 1300 fps in a steel framed Officer's ACP. Ditto 90 grs at 900 fps. in an 8 oz keltec 380. Such loads are not pleasant to shoot and they beat up the gun, in short order. Which is why I say to practice with another gun rather than your carry gun (but very similar dimensions, trigger pull, etc).

If you practice with a pocket 9, use 125 gr lrn cast bullet at 800 fps, and carry 45 grs at 2200 fps. They have the same recoil (ie, mild) but the 45 gr load has 500 ft lbs of energy, breaks the bullet in half reliably and has the "oomph" needed to drive those 2 bullet segments to adequate distances into the attacker. The 125 gr load has just 175 ft lbs. there is a diff in poi of about 4" at 10 yds, but so what? you'll be firing at 5 yds or less and unable to do better than a 10" group, when you are being shot-at.
 
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Old 06-12-2016, 11:21 AM   #2
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Physics IS a real thing. Always a trade-off. The main reason I find guns like the P64-even with the hotter ammo)shootable is probably the weight (steel frame). FWIW, I've never found the Keltec(or other small polymer guns)pocket rockets to be accurate or enjoyable to shoot either.
 
Old 06-12-2016, 05:18 PM   #3
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if a pistol will group 10" at 10 yds, it will shoot better than you will, when under fire. So the "accuracy" part is bs. the p64 is shootable cause its load is a wussy one. 220 ft lbs, whoppee. 40% more "power' than a .22lr using stingers.
 
 
Old 06-12-2016, 05:31 PM   #4
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When compared to the usual. 32ACP/.380 ammo in the Keltec (or even their 9x19mm offerings)I'd not consider it a " wussy load". Not a top end .357 load,but for a " pocket to midsize" role it delivers. Again-wide range of factory ammo AND loading data.
And,in a gun as small as the P64(or the FEG/SMC stuff)I was referring to the all steel construction-which DOES seem to stay put in my hand(definitely better for me than compatibly sized polymer). Bigger guns,you can get away with more-more so with locked breech guns(which the little Polack is not).
But this meanders over to a question I had for you earlier: regarding your high velocity loads I believe you may have misunderstood my question. It dealt with the thread on 3 inch .45ACP loads.I was wondering what you could do applying that " hollow base/skirt" design from your light for caliber/low sectional density loads to something in the 185-200 grain range, from a service sized gun. Wouldn't have to expand or be split-nosed(although that's a good idea). But I was wondering how that paradox rifling you referenced along with the hollw base AND a closer to standard bullet weight could work out...how hot could you run it without more than off-the-shelf springs replacement etc. Any thoughts?
 
Old 06-13-2016, 03:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
if a pistol will group 10" at 10 yds, it will shoot better than you will, when under fire. So the "accuracy" part is bs. the p64 is shootable cause its load is a wussy one. 220 ft lbs, whoppee. 40% more "power' than a .22lr using stingers.
10 inches at ten yards is a shotgun spread, not a group. A full size combat pistol with standard sights should be able to group 5 inches at 25 yards. I wouldn't carry one that wouldn't. I thought you said you would have no trouble hitting a man at fifty yards with an (unknown make or caliber) pocket pistol. Since your ten inch group at 10 yards would equal 50 inches at 50 yards you would have what amounts to a four foot group. Also, how is a hit with almost twice the power of a .22 Stinger "wussy"? You claim your AR (fictional) with a .22 unit is deadly at 100yards.
 
Old 06-13-2016, 04:43 PM   #6
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no thoughts, sorry. the paradox might not give anything like the sort of accuracy you probably think is "required" with bullets that are that long-heavy. I have no idea. you wont gain enough over 165 gr corbon powrball to be worth the hassle, guaranteed.

like I said, shoot some critters with it and you'll agree that Makarov is a wussy load. Full charge 147 gr 9mm jhp's and .45 230 gr loads are wussy (In effect) from 3" barrels.
 
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