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Old 06-06-2016, 08:34 AM   #1
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when all they have is AK's, iron sighted bolt clunks

30 carbs, 30-30's, why worry about needing "long range'? IN fact, if all they have is 308 ball and iron sighted FALS or HKs, they STILL don't have as much reach as a scoped shorty AR. :-) The ball ammo only groups 3" at 100 yds with such guns. :-)

you can't even see a man, sitting in the open, on a dirt berm, wearing khakis, with the naked eye, at 300 yds, if all he does is hold still. The shorty AR, scoped, snipes quite effectively to 400 yds and hits more than misses at 500 yds, too.

So it's stupid to limit yourself to longer range rifles. you don't need them and to give up the GI rd, the .22 unit, the concealment, the silencer, the luminous sights, the chromed bore and chamber of the AR, all big mistakes.
 
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Old 06-06-2016, 12:09 PM   #2
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Part of the problem people have with your conclusions is a matter of unrelated (or maybe 'disconnected') assumptions. IE, just because they have a .308 doesn't mean they inherently only have ball ammo or iron sights. If I'm the type of guy to put a scope on my AR, I'm certainly the kind of guy that would put a scope on a .308 as well.

Similarly, if I'm willing to buy good SP ammo for my 223, I'm likely willing to buy good ammo for my other rifles too. I got lucky in that my .308 is extremely accurate with relatively cheap Federal 180 Hi-Shok stuff. It's literally sub-moa accurate (admittedly just "moa accurate" in my hands) with that load; and when I discovered that, it was only $12.99 a box every day at walmart, so I stocked up. If I were stuck with 3-moa ammo, I wouldn't have much use for .308 myself. But being able to reliably pop a cantaloupe at a quarter mile is fun. I might be able to do so with my one & only 20" AR once I experiment with it some more; it has a good barrel and a good scope, so it may well be capable of that. But with my AR carbines and their carbine-style optics, no way I can. (No way I could in either caliber)
 
Old 06-06-2016, 02:11 PM   #3
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Back when I shot competitive service rifle with the Canadian FN, at 500 yd deliberate match, my average was 28 out of a possible 35 points with standard service ball ammo and iron sights, on a 24"x 22" target. I won't even bother talking about service sniper matches where I used a TRW M14 and scope. Melvin was never a long range shooter, that is why he can't shoot past 100 yds.

Melvin has this misconception that life is going to go his way. I guess it is like that in fantasies! He also misses the fact that a number of us own multiple types of firearms and he fantasizes that we will always chose the firearms that give him an advantage. Sorry Melvin, life does not work that way.

Last edited by Garand; 06-06-2016 at 02:29 PM.
 
 
Old 06-06-2016, 02:23 PM   #4
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I run both ball and SP.
 
Old 06-06-2016, 03:14 PM   #5
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Why would anyone only want a rifle that's only accurate at 100 yards? The whole pointy of rifle accuracy is to reach way, way out there and neutralize your foe or put meat on the table.
 
Old 06-06-2016, 03:34 PM   #6
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Bad pic. M1A using these at 5 or 6 hundred yards, feel sorry for anyone in the scope.
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when all they have is AK's, iron sighted bolt clunks-img_0025.jpg  
 
Old 06-06-2016, 05:06 PM   #7
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Why make the automatic assumption that everyone else has these limitations?

This is not a game it's real life. You don't get t set the reality of what ......

Oh never mind.
Garand likes this.
 
Old 06-06-2016, 05:25 PM   #8
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never said anything about 308 match rifles with scopes. :-) and once again, you assume it's ok for you to be in the open in daylight, without a silencer, but that's a very bad asssumption to be making with your life riding on it. You also assume that the guy will be holding still, that you aint in another guy's crosshairs.
 
Old 06-06-2016, 05:40 PM   #9
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Whether you run dedicated optics,irons;both-Id just say work with them enough to get the most out of the combo.
Same same with ammunition choices. Not handloading these days. So I make an effort to stock what I can with the best value per volume regarding consistency, accuracy, ballistics... When I find a ball or an SP loading that fits the bill (and doesn't incur more bills) I get what I can while I can.
75-80% of that's ball. ...but I still would not to be on the receiving end of it-whether it's the pistol or rifle ammo.
These days, if I can shoot outdoor 2-3 times a month; that's good. Not ideal,but work/travel/other obligations and necessities being what they are ;not bad.
If I can wring out pistol 2 out of every 3 range sessions and work in the rifle work it's all good.
And the dog (babysitting my Dad's elderly Lab) likes seeing me with my gear bag because she knows " Road Trips! " with my friends(and the obligatory bag of jerky).
 
Old 06-06-2016, 06:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
...once again, you assume it's ok for you to be in the open in daylight, without a silencer...
...You also assume that the guy will be holding still, that you aint in another guy's crosshairs.
Who said any of that?
 
Old 06-06-2016, 06:32 PM   #11
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the GUNS have the limitations, under the conditions I said. Doesn't matter who's shooting them.
 
Old 06-06-2016, 06:53 PM   #12
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The guns have the limitations of making us assume that it's ok to be in the open and that everyone else will be standing still?
 
Old 06-06-2016, 07:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
The guns have the limitations of making us assume that it's ok to be in the open and that everyone else will be standing still?
That's what I can't figure out exactly.

Sure there are people that won't know any field craft but there are places that common sense tells you to look out for like cover and concealment both natural and manmade.

Plus natural lines of drift, where the less experienced or just plain wore out might pass thru or be present.

That does not even to begin cover what observation gear that people may of may not have. And I don't mean just rifle scopes or NOD's. Binoculars and spotting scopes come to mind.

Just saying there are many variables as to what might be out there.
 
Old 06-06-2016, 08:43 PM   #14
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and you STILL can't figure out that it will be suicide to be out in daylight?
 
Old 06-07-2016, 05:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikto View Post
and you STILL can't figure out that it will be suicide to be out in daylight?
What I can't figure out is who - besides you - has said anything of the kind in this thread.
 
Old 06-07-2016, 08:17 AM   #16
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Melvin dump the fantasy that everyone is going to be aimlessly wandering around in open ground if the balloon goes up. In any catastrophic event reality is going to be completely different than your fantasy, regardless how serious the event.
 
Old 06-07-2016, 06:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in AR View Post
What I can't figure out is who - besides you - has said anything of the kind in this thread.
Exactly movement is movement regardless of night or day.

Plus people for the most part are predictable and pretty easy to cut sign on and track.
 
Old 06-08-2016, 12:50 PM   #18
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think so? try it at night. I never said anything about wandering around with your finger up your butt, like garand or terry would do. :-) when all you do (at night) for a year is come out to dispose of wastes, get water, now and then access a food cache, there's going to be damned little risk of your being noticed, by anyone. 100x less than some dipshyte who is wandering around in daylight, in the open, firing noisy guns.
 
Old 06-08-2016, 01:32 PM   #19
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Geez, considering that both Terry and I were infanteers at one time in our lives and you were a meathead (MP), you really know a lot about our abilities in the bush. NOT! Please give a detailed description of the impending catastrophic event.
 
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