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Old 06-08-2017, 05:59 PM   #1
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Thumbs up Yet another Circle 10 Makarov...

....at Gripper The Zek's Home For Wayward Combloc Arms and Gear....
Terry G was asking me a while back if I was still banging away with those Makarovs... apparently I am.
Funny he asked when he did-that night a friend if a friend felt the need to divest/thin the herd.
$225.00 in a FTF deal got me Makarov Number Three.. another Bulgarian Circle 10 with four boxes of Brown Bear and a single box of Critical Defense. Spare grips and a leather holster. No spare magazine with this(but I already have a few spares) but that's why I got it for that price more or less delivered like a pizza.
Internals are good,no peening of the slide stop areas. Good trigger. I will probably do my usual and score some more Wolff Gunsprings heavier recoil springs. Maybe a few more spare magazines(now I have an excuse).
Still casting about for a P83 to keep the P64 company.
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Old 06-09-2017, 12:32 PM   #2
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Excellent score. Kinda weird I was thinking about you and Makarov's. Anyway, that price is far and away better than anything I have seen lately. Bulgarian Makarov's in plain Good Condition are nailing $400.00. The auctions have Excellent Condition going for the same or a little cheaper, but when you add shipping your still close to the $400.00 mark. Anyway, have fun with it. A lot of people sneer at the "Commie Guns", but these all steel guns will be shooting long after the new breed of polymer guns are having parts replaced.
 
Old 06-09-2017, 01:05 PM   #3
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The same guy has an angle cut rear trunnion/thumbhole stock VEPR 7.62x54R 20 inch . I am sorely tempted. I will wait and see if it's still available in a few weeks(he wants $1000.00,but given the current availability of FM-AK47 VEPR variants for the he same price,I believe he'll drop to $625-700.00).
 
 
Old 06-09-2017, 01:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry G View Post
Excellent score. Kinda weird I was thinking about you and Makarov's. Anyway, that price is far and away better than anything I have seen lately. Bulgarian Makarov's in plain Good Condition are nailing $400.00. The auctions have Excellent Condition going for the same or a little cheaper, but when you add shipping your still close to the $400.00 mark. Anyway, have fun with it. A lot of people sneer at the "Commie Guns", but these all steel guns will be shooting long after the new breed of polymer guns are having parts replaced.
While I agree with your overall premise, at the same time I have to say "not really" to your end statement.

Such articles have a tendency to persist, and very well no less. That said, the mechanical designs do not support the loads involved. You can wear out such a piece pretty quickly if you consider the replacement of minor parts to be a factor, while modern plastic options will endure via better recoil management. Less material endurance, better design. Alas, the principle is reasonable.

If you're measuring wasting away a frame from ambient corrosion at the point it would mean anything, you're not shooting it much. Springs last -way- shorter in the comblocc and pre 1990 western designs.

Edit to add: I'm a fan of many such designs, but tribology and physics basically represent laws ordained by the universe. Can't break em. Nothing you're saying would conflict with upgrading materials to a more "reasonable"
modern design. Re: the springs, proper design would not necessitate a break in period. I'm measuring from when "break in" as a concept as achieved even if it works before hand (it's eating up environmental and mfg margin, inconsistent with aerospace quality).
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Last edited by ethereal; 06-09-2017 at 01:20 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2017, 01:28 PM   #5
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Cool

ANYTHING can and does wear in ,and eventually wears out.
Some polymer guns fit me better than others(Sig 2022,CZ P07/09 etc),others not so much(Most Blocks etc.). I freely admit to having an Unnatural Preference For Steel Framed Guns In General-with some exceptions. I ALSO prefer steel ,and under limited conditions; polymer over MOST but not all aluminum frame guns.
And,quite a bit of the old Eastern Bloc guns seem to " fit" me better than others.
Made a good score. Better on average than today's average prices,not quite as good as the Good Old Days.
Either way,another example of a gun I am comfortable/competent with delivered like a pizza...now if only it came equipped with a barmaid and a frozen bottle of Russian Standard.
 
Old 06-09-2017, 01:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal View Post
While I agree with your overall premise, at the same time I have to say "not really" to your end statement.

Such articles have a tendency to persist, and very well no less. That said, the mechanical designs do not support the loads involved. You can wear out such a piece pretty quickly if you consider the replacement of minor parts to be a factor, while modern plastic options will endure via better recoil management. Less material endurance, better design. Alas, the principle is reasonable.

If you're measuring wasting away a frame from ambient corrosion at the point it would mean anything, you're not shooting it much. Springs last -way- shorter in the comblocc and pre 1990 western designs.

Edit to add: I'm a fan of many such designs, but tribology and physics basically represent laws ordained by the universe. Can't break em. Nothing you're saying would conflict with upgrading materials to a more "reasonable"
modern design. Re: the springs, proper design would not necessitate a break in period. I'm measuring from when "break in" as a concept as achieved even if it works before hand (it's eating up environmental and mfg margin, inconsistent with aerospace quality).
I somewhat understand where your coming from, but I don't speak Physics. Seriously, I would imagine that polymer products will outlast steel, but you have to admit that WWI Lee-Enfields, WWII Mausers, Garands, and 1950's AK's, are still out there shooting. Are the Armalites, Glock's, etc. going to be in next 50 years? Maybe my Grandson will look admiringly on Dear, Departed Grandfather's Colt SP-1 and think "Did people actually fight a war with these things ?"
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Old 06-09-2017, 05:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripper
Either way,another example of a gun I am comfortable/competent with delivered like a pizza...now if only it came equipped with a barmaid and a frozen bottle of Russian Standard.
I wish I was able to acquire firearms in a manner you described. Life goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry G
I somewhat understand where your coming from, but I don't speak Physics. Seriously, I would imagine that polymer products will outlast steel, but you have to admit that WWI Lee-Enfields, WWII Mausers, Garands, and 1950's AK's, are still out there shooting. Are the Armalites, Glock's, etc. going to be in next 50 years? Maybe my Grandson will look admiringly on Dear, Departed Grandfather's Colt SP-1 and think "Did people actually fight a war with these things ?"
Polymers will decay through an assortment of attack and innate decomposition vectors. I would like to emphasize again that I'm not calling polymers superior just to be totally clear (not that you're inferring it, just want to be super clear). Even materials like Inconel (and all nickel alloys) outright waste away in the right contexts. Most metals will outlast polymers in this application by an order of magnitude, and there's no denying that.

The actual mechanisms involved in the Communist guns just aren't awesome. Obviously, they work, and they're super nifty, just not the best way to attack the problem. The issues manifest in the springs that keep them going. They are so overbuilt everywhere else that it doesn't seem to matter, which is also cool (and part of the allure to the guns). What I'm saying is other designs are more enduring, especially if they added that Communist-tears/Communist methodology charm, if you will. Other designs make more sense when you do the math, but that doesn't invalidate prior works which prevail to this day (such as the piece in question). Interestingly, older Mauser receivers are made out of what is tantamount to structural steel, and are on the borderline of being fit for service in any way by modern standards.

You can make a machine that will trudge through itself. Sometimes to the point that it's hard to establish that it's trudging, or even has a weakness or design deficiency.

While I'm sure it wasn't what you were aiming to convey, aluminum actually produces strong oxides. Basically, aluminum rust makes aluminum "better", and it happens whenever aluminum is exposed to the atmosphere we all live in. Quickly. Anodizing is essentially turning that concept into micron sized spires on the surface of the material. Aluminum oxides, aluminum "rust" is stupid strong. Totally different from ferrous metals. That black to grey coating on your SP1 is such oxidation, just catalyzed by a manufacturing process. The harder, the blacker, no innuendo intended. It can still be breached, but so can any surface coating be it PVD, electrolytic (like anodize), or conversion (like black oxide).

Speaking of the SP1, part of what's nifty about the AR is they even pulled it off with aluminum. There are a plethora of concerns with the AR itself, but it's impossible to deny that it's a great design, largely because nothing structural is really problematic.
 
Old 06-09-2017, 05:26 PM   #8
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Some states(like my current state of residence,NH)have a state level database? Gunline,NH State Police/Dept of Safety)where they run FFL Dealer transfers for handgun purchase(call it a State Level NICS check). Long arm transactions are automatically run through NICS. Delays/denials on the former are run through NICS(where you run into more hassle). Depending on who runs the check at NH Gunline,an otherwise" good citizen" may have " issues"-my own were well documented in a NH Supreme Court Opinion dated 02/20/2015. I " won" but avoid FFL transaction like the plague(until some " final loose ends are fixed"). Within NH,private sales/FTF sales are kosher between P&R (LTC) holding residents of NH.
I,for one; actually prefer the private sales. Call it a flashback to my " Bring Cash Alley" days.
 
Old 06-09-2017, 05:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gripper View Post
Some states(like my current state of residence,NH)have a state level database? Gunline,NH State Police/Dept of Safety)where they run FFL Dealer transfers for handgun purchase(call it a State Level NICS check). Long arm transactions are automatically run through NICS. Delays/denials on the former are run through NICS(where you run into more hassle). Depending on who runs the check at NH Gunline,an otherwise" good citizen" may have " issues"-my own were well documented in a NH Supreme Court Opinion dated 02/20/2015. I " won" but avoid FFL transaction like the plague(until some " final loose ends are fixed"). Within NH,private sales/FTF sales are kosher between P&R (LTC) holding residents of NH.
I,for one; actually prefer the private sales. Call it a flashback to my " Bring Cash Alley" days.
I have an FFL but the whole notion of pizza delivery was just beautiful in my mind.

Its supposedly a "right". Government institutions should have absolutely no say.
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