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Old 09-28-2016, 11:51 AM   #1
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Hollow Points a waste in LCP?

At least three articles I have read dismiss +P and all hollow points in the LCP and all mini .380's as a waste of money citing the 2 3/4 inch barrels as not long enough to develop velocities high enough to expand the rounds. I did wonder about this myself as recovered Remington HP's fired through my LCP showed little or no expansion. The rounds were fired through 3/4" plywood and struck loose sand.
 
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Old 09-28-2016, 12:26 PM   #2
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Sounds like we tried similar things. Since .380's are at the bottom-end of my comfort zone, I tended to err on the side of caution when it came to ammo choice. Initially I carried FMJ-FP from winchester in it, and then for a while switched to the remington 102-grain jhp, figuring that if it expanded, great; if it didn't, I was at least shooting a heavy bullet. And with such a tiny gun in a mediocre caliber, that probably wasn't a bad thing.

I was intrigued by Buffalo Bore's hard-cast +P load. I like flat-point bullets in some calibers, and it seemed like a good way to max out the LCP's capabilities. But in every penetration test I could find, it HUGELY overpenetrated; anywhere from 35-45 inches. That kind of overpenetration is the reason I don't carry 9mm fmj, so I saw no reason to do it in any other caliber either.

After checking out the shootingthebull 'ammo quest' videos on youtube, I changed to the Hornady XTP load. Is it "the best"..? I don't know, but it's probably as good as anything, at least anything that isn't likely to over-stress the little plastic gun.
 
Old 09-28-2016, 02:58 PM   #3
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being that it's 9 ozs and a keltec, ball ammo probably overstresses it. jhp's aint gonna expand in flesh and blood, at 380 velocities. You need 1200 fps for .36 bores and even that is "iffy" in winter, when heavy clothing tends to "clog" hp cavities. The flat point and cutting edges of the jhp are worth having, tho, IF they feed reliably in your gun. By the time you find out that such is true with heavy loads, you'll probably need another Keltec 380.
 
 
Old 09-28-2016, 03:48 PM   #4
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I had a kel-tec (in .32) and will never have another. Two broken mainsprings in less than 200 rounds using plain fmj ammo; I replaced the spring a third time and retired it. If history is an indicator, I figure it probably has a 90-100 round life expectancy before breaking again. Now it's a backup/backup/backup gun for my purposes.

I've had much better luck with the LCP. Don't know how many rounds it has thru it, but I put 150 XTP's thru it in one day when first trying them, with no problems and no detectable wear.

Agree on the kel-tec though. A lot of guys love theirs, but I have no intention of owning another one. Mine was pure crap.
 
Old 09-28-2016, 04:15 PM   #5
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Since I rarely carry it, and then as a back up to my back up, I'll stick to ball ammunition. I really can't see needing one unless something went really, really, wrong.
gripper and FordPrefect like this.
 
Old 09-29-2016, 09:47 AM   #6
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Fwiw, on .380 expansion... It can be a difficult thing to engineer a load that does expand at typical velocities, or to even simply choose a load that does, but it's by no means an impossibility.

From highpowers and handguns, talking about the federal 90-grain JHP .380 load, at well under 1200 fps:
Quote:
...It's performed about the same in both water and "wet pack," bundled newsprint soaked for about a day in water. I have shot a few critters like rabbits and raccoons with it and it did expand in the few cases where bullets were recovered. Average velocity for this load is from about 960 ft/sec from 3.5" barrels to just over 1000 ft/sec from the slightly longer ones. I have no figures for the extremely short barrel .380 pistols.
From: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/S...ctionLoads.htm

If it expands in rabbits, I have no problem believing it can expand in thugs.



On needing "1200 fps for 36 bores", that's an awfully broad mandate to arbitrarily make. The old Hydra-Shok from the 70's had a very good reputation for expanding even in the .38 spl loading, down around ~600fps. It wasn’t jacketed, but adding a thin jacket wouldn't require doubling of the velocity to achieve.

Old-style factory hydra-shok scorpion recovered from a dead calf; fired from a colt cobra, again at around 600 fps:
 
Old 09-29-2016, 06:19 PM   #7
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You guys remember the old Nyclad? I wonder if someone has a similar loading for the .380... Or,for that matter;the 9x18. Pretty much all of the OP and follow up kind of reinforces my own preference for that caliber over the .380.
 
Old 09-29-2016, 06:30 PM   #8
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My wife's nightstand gun is a smith L-frame loaded with nyclads; 125's, I believe +P but not positive.
 
Old 09-29-2016, 06:47 PM   #9
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Probably a reason I tend to favor old " simple" bullet designs like the NYPD load,the Buffalo Bore Hardcast Flat Points etc...a lot to be said for " just hit ".
 
Old 09-29-2016, 06:53 PM   #10
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so why does having a superior load have to mean not hitting, hmm? hitting faster, repeat hits faster, too. why not have it ALL?
 
Old 09-29-2016, 08:58 PM   #11
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Because a commonly available,readily relocatable(is that a word?) that can be acquired/reloaded/cast /stocked/practiced with and one that performs consistently across the velocity range(from standard pressure to hot loads) always makes sense to me. Hey,I'm a simple guy. I don't have to know that " projectile Xfragments into three separate razor edged donuts and irradiates the area around the target for the three generations" to have confidence in it. If I can hit with it,get through normal to intermediate barrier material and hit with force; that's OK.
Hey,Ive even been OK with ball. Is it " perfect"? Nope. Can I hit with whatever I carry? Am I confident that I can make a fight of it should it prove necessary? Yes to both questions.
 
Old 09-29-2016, 09:00 PM   #12
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Interesting. Autocorrect turned " replicatable" into " relocatable". Oh well.
 
Old 09-30-2016, 03:34 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
so why does having a superior load have to mean not hitting, hmm?...
What superior .380 load do you recommend?
 
Old 09-30-2016, 08:08 AM   #14
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your confidence is badly missplaced, especially in the makarov. it wont reliably stop a chuck or coon, i promise you, much less something bigger.
 
Old 09-30-2016, 01:08 PM   #15
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The 9X18MM is a hard hitting round, I much prefer it in the Makarov and CZ82 to any .380 out there. I would like to know how much experience Melvin has with it since it the year 1990.
 
Old 09-30-2016, 01:18 PM   #16
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I know that I have more than a few years of using a wide range of Eastern Bloc arms -including their sidearms-in wildly varying situations and settings.
Nope,its not a .357 Magnum. OTOH,the 9x18 is nothing I'd care to step in front of.A P-64(or even a Makarov PM) disappears on my skinny frame. And I do have more confidence in it than I do most .380s. Just a matter of preference,as I have a LOT more experience with the 9x18 than I do the 9x17.
 
Old 09-30-2016, 03:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
so why does having a superior load have to mean not hitting, hmm?...
Again I ask, what superior .380 load do you recommend?
 
Old 09-30-2016, 06:50 PM   #18
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you wouldln't care to step in front of a pellet gun, either, so that's no argument at all. The makarov is as big and heavy as a 3" micro .45, so there's no point at all in having 1/3rd as much power in the same size and weight package.
 
Old 09-30-2016, 07:10 PM   #19
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It's heavier than an LCP. But" heavy"?? I dunno. I'm by no means a big guy(think Popeye meets Christopher Walken) but I never noticed it them being particularly heavy. They're flat,they fit my hand well,hit hard for their size;and are accurate. I guess they just " fit" me,much other Eastern Bloc stuff seems to.
 
Old 10-01-2016, 11:51 AM   #20
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The Makarov Heavy? Compared to what? Airsoft? As I've said, I would choose a Mak over any .380 out there.
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