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Old 10-01-2016, 12:57 PM   #21
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From: Central Arkansas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
...The makarov is as big and heavy as a 3" micro .45,...
Same size, pretty much. Same weight, not even close. One benefit of being someone who actually owns guns (rather than someone who just reads about them on the internet), is that we have actual first-hand, measurable things to go by; not just editorials and sermons, inherently tainted by personal bias.

I have what certainly qualifies as a "micro" .45; a 3 1/8" Detonics Combat Master. I have a bulgarian makarov. I also have a P-64; the "other" makarov.

Detonics is 30.85 oz empty and 37.29 loaded.
Bulgy Mak is 23.76 empty and 28.28 loaded; roughly half a pound lighter.
The P-64 is 19.65 empty and 23.77 loaded; nearly three-quarters of a pound lighter.

(Fwiw, both mak gun weights are with 115-grain JHP's, the heaviest I'm aware of; so no pro-mak bias or favoritism there.)

Put another way, a person could carry a loaded P-64 AND a loaded .380, for the same weight as the loaded detonics. I love the little detonics and will never part with it; but reality is what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justme View Post
...having 1/3rd as much power in the same size and weight package.
And.... no.

Most powerful factory load I've found thru the detonics (and I've chrono'ed dozens of loads thru it, over the 25-26 years I've had it) is the corbon 185 +P. It runs 1,011 fps for 420 ft/lbs. And as stout and robust as the Detonics is, that load simply beats it up and abuses it. I've literally had the firing-pin retainer come loose and the firing pin fly out of the gun when shooting that load. It's very potent, but it's very hard on things; laws of physics are unforgiving that way.

With its favorite load (federal's 185 JHP) the little Detonics runs 816 fps for 274 ft/lbs. With standard 230-grain ball, it runs 764 fps for 298 ft/lbs.

So it 'can' get 420 ft/lbs, but it beats it up. With normal-pressure loads, 275-300 ft/lbs is it.

On the makarov performance, I've never have chrono'ed loads from the full-size makarov, but it would be better than the tiny PPK-size P-64. And even from the little P-64, Silver Bear 115-grain JHP runs 1004 fps, for 257 ft/lbs; 93% of the muzzle energy of Federal' nearly legendary .45acp JHP load. And the federal 185 is absolutely worthy of its reputation; not knocking it at all and is what I carried in the Detonics for years. But it's no magic wand, and the 115 makarov is simply no slouch either.

I really have no dog in this fight either way, as I don't carry the P-64, the Bulgy Mak, or the Detonics any more. I've switched to better choices; choices that weren't designed a half-century ago (in the case of the maks) to MORE than a century ago in the case of the 1911.

I still like 1911's, still have four of them and took one out shooting just a couple days ago, and I think they're very good guns. But regardless of the emotional claims of their religious-zealot fanboy following, they're simply not the be-all, end-all of handgun design; any more than a motor vehicle or a pair of handcuffs from the same tail-end of wild west times are some kind of 'ultimate' achievement compared to what we have available today.

Fact is, the little CM9 that I edc is smaller, lighter, AND more powerful than the Detonics mini-1911. It weighs half what the detonics does (15.9 oz empty, don't recall loaded weight), it gives the same 6+1 capacity with standard magazine (I actually carry it with a +1 mag, giving 8 rounds on hand), and since it's rated for modern +P ammo (unlike the Detonics) it gives about a third MORE power than the vaunted mini-1911 in the sacred .45acp; 380 ft/lbs vs ~285 ft/lbs.


Sorry for the thread-drift guys. Just hate to leave blatantly, blindingly, measurably wrong info out in public when the topic is this important, and where it might get someone hurt if they unwittingly accept it at face value.
 
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:06 PM   #22
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From: Girard, IL

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That CorBon 185 is a good load, carry that or the Black Hills 185
 
Old 10-02-2016, 12:45 PM   #23
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From: Central Arkansas

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBassMan View Post
That CorBon 185 is a good load, carry that or the Black Hills 185
In my full size 1911, the corbon did fine. But the lighter slide weight and shorter slide travel of the little gun just makes plus-P stuff too much for it. (No corbon hate here though. My edc 9mm carries corbon even now.)

The federal 185 jhp is the same Sierra bullet as the corbon .45 load but at non-plus-P pressure, and the little gun just loves it. That and the cci 200 jhp were the loads I carried in it (depending on availability). It was a great setup for its time and served as my primary CCW gun for probably ten years, but nowadays I can get more power, more rounds and lighter weight with other choices instead.
 
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