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Old 09-09-2008, 06:23 PM   #1
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Current Best 9x19 Pistol?

In your fact-based opinion: What is the best, in terms of capability and reliability, 9x19 chambered full-size pistol presently on the market?
 
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Old 09-10-2008, 06:54 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post
In your fact-based opinion: What is the best, in terms of capability and reliability, 9x19 chambered full-size pistol presently on the market?
I’d say glock; and since you're asking for opinions on 'full-size pistols' I'd have to say G17 or G19.

But my personal candidate for ‘best’ (or at least 'most versatile') goes to the 26, which is probably very different from most people’s opinion – I assume most folks would say G17 or G19 as their top pick.

Only reason I say G26 is that it offers better concealability when that’s important, but gives up nothing substantial when concealability isn’t a concern. Being able to take the magazines from any 9mm glock pistol add to its versatility. I have a few G19 magazines set up with A&G Grip Adapters for use in the 26’s, and am a big fan of them. Even with the same 15-round magazine in place, the 26 with A&G adapter still conceals slightly better than the 19 since the A&G gives the gun more of a round-butt profile rather than the square-butt profile that the 19 has.

Both of these guns are using the same 15-round magazines, but the 26 on the left doesn’t have the hard, sharp hump on the back end that the 19 does, so it conceals slightly better. (Which is why I've taken to carrying G26's only for concealment anymore, and relegate the 19 to duty carry only.)


The only thing the 26 gives up is about 3/8” of barrel, which means a slightly shorter sight radius and 20-30 fps less velocity, depending on load. To me, the loss of 30 fps is a minor thing to sacrifice in order to gain slightly-improved concealability with the same-capacity magazines, and the option of MUCH-better concealability with standard 10-round mags.

If concealability is never going to be a concern, I’d say go with the G19 or G17. But if deeper concealability might ever be a factor, the G26 gives options that the others don’t.
 
Old 09-10-2008, 12:41 PM   #3
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I like glocks ( own and carry an old model 17);but CZ's have always had a special place in my heart.Priced to sell ,and built to last!.
Any here like the current Taurus line up ,the 5 inch 24/7's and the OSS???
 
Old 09-10-2008, 01:18 PM   #4
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My experience is with the CZ75B and the Browning HiPower. For me, both are ergonomic, accurate, quality pistols built to last a lifetime. I like them both but am partial to the HiPower. Both are little large for small framed me to carry concealed but both carry well in an open hip holster. I've tried Glocks and can hit well with them but they just aren't comfortable in my hand. Maybe a slimmed down grip or different angle would help.

RIKA
 
Old 09-10-2008, 03:20 PM   #5
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I tend to concur with RIKA, being partial to the Browning P-35 and the CZ 75. Since the CZ is more robust than the Browning, my vote is for the CZ 75.
 
Old 09-10-2008, 05:16 PM   #6
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The only thing good about "Tactical Tupperware" is its ability to be cleaned in the dishwasher, but then this question's response is a very personal decision. Whats good for the goose, is not always the choice of the gander. I'll take wood & steel everytime.


My 9mm Colt Combat Commander
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Current Best 9x19 Pistol?-img_0423.jpg  
 
Old 09-10-2008, 06:03 PM   #7
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Not trying to sound obnoxious, but I was referring more to the pistol itself and not as much as to why we like a certain one for ourselves.

First, very Nice brace John!

Now on to the discussion:

Glocks really aren't the pinnacle of engineering success. Releasing the slide release doesn't always generate enough energy to fully chamber a round, they are not modular or adaptable in terms of user interface, with exception of gen3 frames some larger illumination or laser combo devices on the rail will prohibit reliable functioning, and the rails are only capable of dealing with specifically linear motion. This is not saying Glocks are bad boo-hiss/whine, its just saying that on the quest for the best 9x19 pistol that is where they stand on the shortcomings of perfection.

The BHP/P-35 comes up short primarily in its comparatively (to Sig and HK) weaker lock up and most of the newer 15 round magazines not working with more than the original 13, giving it a capacity issue (you can fit 12 .45s in a USP, and one of the qualities of the vunder-nine is that you can fit a bunch of rounds into them, many other wondernines have functional 17 round mags on top of their 15 round well-proven factory mags). The 9mm 1911 is extremely deficient in the capacity category. Also lacking on the BHP is a 1913 rail. FWIW, I think the BHP is the single most shootable 9mm pistol ever put into mass production, as its big uncle the 1911 is to .45.

I really don't know all that much about the CZ75s insides. Arebindixie and Rika, could you enlighten me?
 
Old 09-11-2008, 04:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post
Not trying to sound obnoxious, but I was referring more to the pistol itself and not as much as to why we like a certain one for ourselves.

First, very Nice brace John!

Now on to the discussion:

Glocks really aren't the pinnacle of engineering success. Releasing the slide release doesn't always generate enough energy to fully chamber a round,(NEVER had a problem with this in 16 years of carrying glocks) they are not modular or adaptable in terms of user interface ((with all due respect, it's a flipping handgun, not an m-4. That said, take a look in the Midway Catalog, Cheaper than Dirt, or Brownelles, there are a couple of dozen different doo-dads you can put onto yout Glock), with exception of gen3 frames some larger illumination or laser combo devices on the rail will prohibit reliable functioning, and the rails are only capable of dealing with specifically linear motion. This is not saying Glocks are bad boo-hiss/whine, its just saying that on the quest for the best 9x19 pistol that is where they stand on the shortcomings of perfection.
IF i had to pick a 9mm i'd probably go with the P-35, IMO it's only deficiency is that it IS a 9mm..but that's just me, and im not going to start the usual 9mm/.45 pissing match . When it comes to sheer grunt-proofedness the Glocks win hands down. When you pull the trigger, they go "Bang"..period. in 16 years and hundreds of thousands of rounds I cant think of ANY problems that we've had with our Glocks..admittedly they are .40's (G-23) but the ONLY difference is the barrel and recoil spring, everything else is identical to the 19. We have had departments in our area that have carried Smiths, HK's, Sig's, and Rugers over time, it's come to pass that 75% of those departments carry glocks now.
 
Old 09-11-2008, 05:14 AM   #9
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I'd say the Glock 17. The XD and M&P look nice, but I don't think they've quite proven themselves over time yet.

I haven't heard of the problem darkwofl mentions happening on the G17, maybe on the 26, or even the 19 with less slide mass, but from everything I've seen, the G17 is a hammer.

But then, I'm not really up on the full sized 9mms. The only reason I carry a 9 is because it's easier to conceal than a .45. My Huckleberry is the G19 for this. The G26 is too small for my gorilla hands, the 19 is smaller than I like, but it works. Plus the ability to take G17 and G18 mags puts it ahead of the competition in my book.
 
Old 09-11-2008, 05:22 AM   #10
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Kpdpipes,

Recoil spring, as well as conditions of use, can make a difference. I've been consistently taught that when dealing with pistols manually recharging the slide is preferable and that it is essentially mandatory with the Glock 17. I know that thefarleft has relayed to me the failure to fully seat issue with his compact 9mm model, as has Stan with his issue G23 (but he's ran that thing into the ground and I'm not sure where he is on spring maintenance or mag replacement). It does make a little sense, Glock slides are pretty light by comparison to other pistols. Also, I'm not referring to strapping a bunch of random aftermarket doo-dads to the piece, I'm talking about the not-always optimal and not so user adjustable grip configuration. The Glock is very good at going bang, that is its extent though (still far better than the majority of handguns out there).
 
Old 09-11-2008, 06:33 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post
...Nice brace John...
Just to clarify (since I made such a long-winded post about them), that’s not current. I’ve since changed the rig some, using the same holsters on an old Galco ‘Jackasss’ harness I had laying around. I also now only carry G26’s when concealed, usually with the 10-round mags in place; rarely with the 15’s. Fact is, with the better Jackass harness, the smaller guns and 10-round magazines, it conceals under a one-size-too-large shirt; no jacket required. Been using it that way for nearly a year, and just last month bought a new rig from the same maker, designed for G26’s instead of G19’s. Received it this past week, but haven’t made the harness change yet - figure to do so this weekend. With the G26-specific holsters, it should conceal even slightly better.

FWIW, the maker is www.survivalsheath.com, and he has some intriguing and even ‘out there’ shoulder-holster design options. (Need a handgun on one side and a camp axe on the other, both with pull-thru holsters? He’s your guy. )
 
Old 09-11-2008, 12:52 PM   #12
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I've carried a few 9's to date, Ruger, Astra, Sig, Star, and even a Steyer GB. But for current production make mine a Glock.......19 that is. After a few rounds it feels like an old friend, one that I'll trust with my life.
I have put a few hundred rounds thru HK's and a couple of S&W's and they just don't measure up for me. What somebody said before...Glock's go bang.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 04:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post
Kpdpipes,

Recoil spring, as well as conditions of use, can make a difference. I've been consistently taught that when dealing with pistols manually recharging the slide is preferable and that it is essentially mandatory with the Glock 17. I know that thefarleft has relayed to me the failure to fully seat issue with his compact 9mm model, as has Stan with his issue G23 (but he's ran that thing into the ground and I'm not sure where he is on spring maintenance or mag replacement). It does make a little sense, Glock slides are pretty light by comparison to other pistols. Also, I'm not referring to strapping a bunch of random aftermarket doo-dads to the piece, I'm talking about the not-always optimal and not so user adjustable grip configuration. The Glock is very good at going bang, that is its extent though (still far better than the majority of handguns out there).
The only issue i know of with the slide release, is the fact that it's small, and doesnt have too much leverage to it, it takes a LOT of "Thumb" as opposed to say a 1911. I've been carrying 23's since 1992, and as I said, i've always used the Slide release with no problems, and I shoot more than 95% of the people on my dept... Glock "Reccomends" Dropping the slide off of the Sl my manually doing it and that's the way its taught to the majority of people who carry them on a daily basis professionally. Most of the guys (and girls) I work with never carried any other Auto than the G-23 so they go with what they're taught by our range guys/Glock Armorers who parrot the mantra THEY've been taught..

As for the rest..yeah the Grip Angle takes some getting used to, and isnt as comfortable as other designs.. On the Light Issue, I put a TLR-2 on the bottom of my Issue pistol back in Jan, since then i've run around 5K through it without a hiccup, so they've apparently fixed whatever that flex issue was with the first run of rail frames.
 
Old 09-12-2008, 09:41 AM   #14
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If I had my arm twisted and HAD to grab a 9mm to carry, I would use one of my H&K P7s. If I couldn't find one in the vault quick enough, I would then look for the Kahr.
 
Old 09-23-2008, 04:42 PM   #15
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I'd go with a J frame Smith, if I had to go with a 9mm. Small frame, concealable, drop dead reliable and able to be loaded with or without moonclips.

Someone needs to throw a revolver into the works!
 
Old 09-24-2008, 05:43 PM   #16
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Tuna,do you recall an Israeli variant Model 10 S&W type piece that was essentially a K frame 9mm??I have not seen one in years ( or an American Eagle Mauser ,for that matter!);and was wondering if they could still be had.
 
Old 09-24-2008, 11:22 PM   #17
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Tuna,do you recall an Israeli variant Model 10 S&W type piece that was essentially a K frame 9mm??I have not seen one in years ( or an American Eagle Mauser ,for that matter!);and was wondering if they could still be had.
That was the S&W 547.
 
Old 02-09-2009, 04:31 AM   #18
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I know this is an old thread; I meant to reply to it some time ago and forgot about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post

The BHP/P-35 comes up short primarily in its comparatively (to Sig and HK) weaker lock up and most of the newer 15 round magazines not working with more than the original 13, giving it a capacity issue (you can fit 12 .45s in a USP, and one of the qualities of the vunder-nine is that you can fit a bunch of rounds into them, many other wondernines have functional 17 round mags on top of their 15 round well-proven factory mags). The 9mm 1911 is extremely deficient in the capacity category. Also lacking on the BHP is a 1913 rail. FWIW, I think the BHP is the single most shootable 9mm pistol ever put into mass production, as its big uncle the 1911 is to .45.
I have used Mecgar 15 round magazines for the BHP, loaded to capacity, and I have been satisfied with them. I have heard that they may be weaker or less reliable than 13 round magazines due to a thinner follower but I have not personally experienced it.

From the standpoint of capability, I can see where capacity may be an issue but I do not think it should eclipse reliability and accuracy, better ergonomics for smaller hands (e.g. the BHP and some single stack models such as the Gov't Model), lower recoil (especially for those who are recoil sensitive or have only basic to intermediate skills), faster follow-up shots, and lower ammunition costs.

I also think capacity can be a disadvantage leading to foolish expenditures of ammo. Since the mid 80s, most major law enforcement agencies have switched to semi-autos and many have chosen high capacity 9mm's and .40 S&W's. The number of rounds expended in documented gunfights has increased, sometimes dramatically, but the miss ratio remains at around 80%. A few years back, a local agency, after having recently adopted Beretta 92 FS's, had a gunfight in which the police fired 42 rounds while the assailant fired 6 rounds. The assailant was hit twice. In this instance, the miss ratio was 95% with 40 rounds expended across a high traffic city street in the vicinity of lodging facilities.

I do not consider the 1913 rail to be a significant advantage in most circumstances when the pistol is carried on the person although lasers and weapon mounted lights can be beneficial when properly utilized. When carried attached to the weapon, the bulk of the laser/light is substantial and holster options are limited. The likelihood of employing either, if carried detached and the emergency requiring them is unforeseen, is very small. The hazard of using the weapon as a flashlight when a light is attached is obvious and the assumption of the poorly skilled that the laser is a panacea for poor marksmanship is frightful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post

I really don't know all that much about the CZ75s insides. Arebindixie and Rika, could you enlighten me?
Some consider the CZ 75 to be a double action BHP clone, which it is not. The following link provides some similarities and differences between the two: http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/B...20and%20CZ.htm.
 
Old 02-09-2009, 10:38 AM   #19
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didn't see the thread to begin with but heres my $0.02 on the subject of the best 9x19 for carry or otherwise. the highpower by browning and others has no pears when it comes to a single action handgun. function, reliability, and it's 13 round magazine capacity is the only thing that keeps it above the 1911's. when it comes to double action pistols they are in a different category. as for double, single actions i have found that the tauris pt-92 is at the top of the list, with sig's and cz's close behind. looking at double action only pistols the glock is on top with the hk, sig, cz, falling behind. as for magazine capacity issue as mentioned if you can't do it in 7 to 13 rounds, then 15 to 17 rounds won't either. so magazine capacity is not an important issue. the main issue is with every weapon your life mite depend on is reliability only, caliber and magazine capacity are at best secondary considerations. shoot a perp in the forehead with a 32 browning will be just as dead as on shot with a 45 apc. all pistol calibers are at best last ditch fight stoppers. with the exception of a few that are to big to handle in a fight can't be depended on to stop a man or anything else with the first round. some are better than others but they all will work if applied properly to the target.
 
Old 10-14-2010, 01:54 PM   #20
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Give me a Stainless Ruger P85 or P89 any day!!!
 
Old 10-29-2010, 09:22 AM   #21
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why would you want a full sized 9mm? The 9 is a good pocket pistol rd, but you can hit a lot harder with other calibers,and still have real rapidfire control. For practice, you can use the 9, and simulate the heavier caliber's recoil, by using a much lighter, more compact weapon of the same type as your big bore.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 09:25 AM   #22
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The double stack can be nice to have, if you have no concealment worries, and a legal-permit or open wear state sort of guy needn't concern himself about such things. The P35 Browning's triggerpull sucks, and is hard to fix. It badly needs its frame stippled, and it also needs a Ducktail tang, to protect its hammer from strikes, and to guide your hand onto a proper grip during a really fast draw, which nearly nobody here knows anything about.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 11:25 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post


The BHP/P-35 comes up short primarily in its comparatively (to Sig and HK) weaker lock up and most of the newer 15 round magazines not working with more than the original 13, giving it a capacity issue (you can fit 12 .45s in a USP, and one of the qualities of the vunder-nine is that you can fit a bunch of rounds into them, many other wondernines have functional 17 round mags on top of their 15 round well-proven factory mags). The 9mm 1911 is extremely deficient in the capacity category. Also lacking on the BHP is a 1913 rail. FWIW, I think the BHP is the single most shootable 9mm pistol ever put into mass production, as its big uncle the 1911 is to .45.
The Browning Hi power was my issue handgun for 28 years and I never found it wanting (the ammunition available YES!). I also shot it as my IPSC handgun for 6 years during which time I shot an excess of 30,000 rds a year through it.
As long as you have a decent quality magazine and remove the magazine disconnector, the gun is reliable enough for the average shooter.

As for stippling, gunkid, thats so 1970's!!! As I have smaller hands I find my 9mm combat commander very comfortable and with the amount of ammo that I put through all my 1911's every year, I have no doubt that if I need to rely on one of them in a defensive situation I will be well served. For me firearms like the glock are not ergonomic for me personally and my marksmanship ability suffers when using firearms of that ilk. I don't plan on being a member of a special forces assault team any time soon, so the latest wonder 9 might not be for me. I have always believed that technology CANNOT replace skill! Yes, technology helps, that is a given.
 
Old 10-29-2010, 10:47 PM   #24
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Toss up between the BHP (most comfortable 9mm made, IMO) and the S&W 5906.

I love the BHP. I've tried it with and without the mag safety, and FWIW, I don't see the difference in the trigger pull. I DO see the advantage of drop free mags with the BHP mag safety removed, but as I am used to a house with little ones in it, I will keep the mag safety for the time being.

The 5906......is one of S&W's unsung masterpieces IMO. I truly wish they could figure out a way to bring back at least that version (i.e., all stainless steel).
 
Old 10-30-2010, 01:13 AM   #25
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First off, to all replying posters, let me say that I consider "best" to be the most capable in terms of function (with reliability being associated with function, obviously) and range thereof. There are a million and one mods, some more invasive than others, to make pistols feel a certain way in accordance with the end user's desires; obviously we cant make a double stack feel like a single stack but unless we're dealing with wider rounds than the 9x19, chances are most people can handle a double stack width grip. This also precludes many "pocket nines" because they often lack expanded functionality outside of the increased concealability.

Arebindixie,

Sorry for the silly-late reply; it looks like this thread has been resurrected.

Where are you coming from in terms of the BHP's lower recoil compared to other 9mms? Different platforms have different recoil signatures but I never experienced the BHP as having notably less to deal with than any other platform. I'm thinking maybe I'm reading that excerpt wrong and you were answering my interjection of the USP having only one round less in capacity?

In response to the potential for "foolish expenditures of ammo;" I bring up the historical case for what I perceive to be the idiocy of many officers rejection of cased-ammo utilizing small arms during the civil war. A lack of self control is a mark on the man not the machine. Generally and in my opinion, however, I believe that the ability to shoot more and reload less is a good thing, and that the option of being able to sustain fire is a positive function (though oft unnecessary/applicable to borderline unrealistic scenarios for the average person).

Personally, I often use the light for its intended purpose, as catalyzed by one perceived need or another. In a more practical area, I know that if the brightest "circle" projected from my weaponlight is over a target within ~15 feet, I have a very high chance of getting effective hits without my glasses on in awkward positions within a reasonable amount of time compared to using my sights, or even the laser in the same situation. I started fiddling with that because it occurred to me that I often have difficulty waking up expediently, and I needed a patch for the problem if there were to be a home invasion / bump-in-the-night / no one gave me the zombie apocalypse memo and I swore I didn't leave Resident Evil on.

Neolithic Hunter,

I've heard that the PT-92 is often better than the gun it was based on, but also that QC is kind of sketchy. On that note, what is it with such spotty product consistency in the firearms market? It seems that the situation gets worse more often than it gets better, and many manufacturers which offer a potentially excellent product are afflicted.

I agree with you that generally service pistol cartridges are very close together in terms of terminal capability, and that this is something that needs to be understood as a reality. I also agree that if it's not reliable, it's a not acceptable.

"Andy,"

Many full and compact sized 9mm autoloading handgun platforms offer a plethora of advantages over subcompact models and pistols using straight-wall cartridges. Easy ones to list are reliability, service life cycle, accuracy, capacity, and often, inherent suppressibility advantages (considering the cartridge vs. a .45 for example).

In response to your caveat about lawful carry and concealment, I personally would consider that a niche application which arises, at the least, out of grey-area circumstances. First off, it's really not that hard to conceal a full sized pistol. Second and more fundamental, in the streets, if one carries themselves properly and emits solid vibe most criminal elements would consider the potential that one is armed a deterrent instead of an easy mark for a new heater (sidenote from experience and a friends research for a thesis: street thugs view a piece as a badge which garners the holder respect up to a certain level, if, and it's a definitive if, they perceive that the holder has no qualms about making the block hot without ditzing around should the need arise). In general, dealing with such people is all a matter of attitude. Perhaps in your region things were different but I'd also venture that you should examine where your techniques and preferences landed you.

Irregardless, I'm a legal owner of my handgun and all of my firearms and related accessories... though some of those are technically owned by a legal entity instead of myself as an individual, I suppose. Luckily for me, in March there won't be any legal reason I couldn't carry my sidearm with me most places.

Regarding the BHP, in my opinion some good grips and some grip tape (personal preference mods) make a quality built BHP perfectly capable of just about any realistic shooting activity. The weapon is plenty capable for the bulk of normal activity.

Garand,

That's a serious lifespan for a handgun if we are indeed talking about a single unit. What was the maximum extent of the maintenance you needed to apply and what kind of loads are we talking? Awesome stuff, I wish I was still shooting high volume yearly.

Last edited by DaRkWoLf; 10-30-2010 at 01:18 AM. Reason: Spellingz and Formatting.
 
Old 10-30-2010, 07:21 AM   #26
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I was not implying that the Hi-Power provides less recoil than other 9mm pistols. Perhaps I was unclear but my intent was to point out that the 9mm provides less recoil than larger calibers and I was considering your reference to the USP.

I agree regarding self control being "a mark on the man and not the machine." Of course, everyone has differing levels of skill, discipline, and judgment.

As an aside, repeating firearms using metallic cartridges were not well received in the South during the War Between the States due to manufacturing limitations and logistics that limited supply (captured powder and lead could and did feed many types and calibers of rifles). They were not well received following the War Between the States due to the limited range and penetration of cartridges like .56-56 and .44 rimfire. Of course, the Trapdoors in .50-70 and later .45-70 offered a cheap means to use up existing quantities of Springfield rifles.
 
Old 10-30-2010, 08:06 AM   #27
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wow. Anyone who can't tell the 2 lb diff

in triggerpull weight between a P35 that has a mag safety, and one that doesn't? Sheesh. Most people who haven't TRIED one aren't aware of the TREMENDOUS difference it makes to have a trigger stop installed, either. Especially in a P35. THe stop is a huge help to having fast repeat shots hit where you intended! Stippling works great, who gives a damn about when it first became popular? Lever actions were obsolete with the first Browning and Remington autorifles, too, but lames continue to buy them.
 
Old 10-30-2010, 07:13 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkWoLf View Post
Garand,

That's a serious lifespan for a handgun if we are indeed talking about a single unit. What was the maximum extent of the maintenance you needed to apply and what kind of loads are we talking? Awesome stuff, I wish I was still shooting high volume yearly.
At the time I was shooting as part of the base pistol team where I was posted to. They sponsered me to shoot IPSC and represent the base. The ammunition was all Canadian military ball ammunition. My Browning was initially set up by one of the base weapons technicians using only issue parts and the only parts that were ever replaced was 1 barrel (as the nose cracked, in which the guiding slot is controlled by the cam in the receiver) and the cam in the receiver once.
 
Old 10-30-2010, 07:33 PM   #29
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I must confess to preferring the Glock 17.
Much of that is to do with versatility.

With the same frame, I can have a 9mm, .40 S&W, and .22lr.
 
Old 10-30-2010, 09:13 PM   #30
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I must confess to preferring the Glock 17.
Much of that is to do with versatility.

With the same frame, I can have a 9mm, .40 S&W, and .22lr.
Question on this: I've read of people converting the .40 caliber Glocks to 9mm, but not 9mm to .40. Can one use a conversion barrel like the Lone Wolf to do this, or did you need to change the slide out as well?
 
Old 10-31-2010, 06:04 AM   #31
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The barrel and slide have to be changed. The frame is the same, but the slide isn't. At least in the ones I've seen.

To be honest I have no interest in the .40, but being able to have a .22 with exactly the same function as my primary pistol, without having to buy a separate gun, is an advantage.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 07:03 AM   #32
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After comparing the options I prefer the P226 for reliability and I can get an elite with a rail and threaded barrel which are important to me.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 07:34 AM   #33
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DaRkWoLf asked:
Quote:
In your fact-based opinion: What is the best, in terms of capability and reliability, 9x19 chambered full-size pistol presently on the market?
I'd offer credit to who originally said it, but I don't know who it was "Opinions are like assholes, everybody has got one and they all stink."

I can reason with you why I prefer a particular pistol, but I can't prove that it is better than another one. My own personal preferences are the Sig pistols, There are several variations of the 226 that would fill the bill with choices to suit the user's preference. I would even say that the 228/ 229s, which aren't quite full sized are a better choice, but that is my preference. I do know that with a competent operator an M11 (Sig P228) will shoot with an M9 (Beretta 92 FS) even though it is a shorter barrel/ sight radius. The main reason I prefer the Sigs is the controls. I hate the Beretta's safety and prefer a decocker DA/SA pistol. That preference and just the feel of the grips rules out the Glocks for me.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 03:57 PM   #34
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Gee, I sure hope I made the right decision! This coming Tuesday afternoon I'm going to pick up my brand new 3rd generation Glock Model 19 at the gun dealer's. (No troublesome 4th generation for me!) I carried a Belgium Browning P-35 for years; it was a well-made pistol; but the safety kept coming off.

After that I carried an S&W Model 59 for many years. While not the strongest pistol design I've ever used it was reliable; and I, once, had the opportunity to save my life with it. This said, I would describe any 59 series pistol as a, 'light duty' sidearm.

Because I'm able to work effectively with it, I consider a Glock Model 19 to be a, 'full sized pistol. After getting off to a very rough start with both of my 3rd generation G-21's, I've had phenomenal good luck with the both of them. With only modest mechanical training, a Glock is as simple to modify or keep up and running as it gets.

True, a Glock is NOT the most inherently safe pistol design you'll ever use; but, when a Glock works, it works well. (I've run better than 8,000 rounds through one of my G-21's without so much as a hiccup. I've, also, got about 5,000 rounds through the other one without a hitch, too.)

Would I carry a 9mm pistol as a primary? Well, I have; but, then again, I'm an inveterate risk taker. This one's going to be my wife's occasional primary, and my regular secondary. After thinking about it, you really can't live without a 9mm pistol; it's just too darned useful and too easy to shoot straight.

The reason, 'Why' I'm staying with Glock is because I've learned the design and am able to repair 90% of what's on a Glock without having to talk to those (verifiable) mendacious factory assholes.

Oh, yeah, DarkWolf, I've been trained in the H.O.T. method of slide release; but I've, also, dremeled the top edge off the slide stops on both of my G-21's.

It's a delicate procedure; and you have to be very careful not to take off too much material; but, if I strike the back edge of the magazine as it's inserted, my slide(s) will always snap shut without any further hand motion.

(If one didn't, I'd instantly revert to a customary hand-over-top release; so it's no big deal; but, yeah, what Glock is now calling a, 'slide release' is a frigg 'in joke. It's a crappy sheet metal, 'slide stop'; and that's all it's every going to be. This is one of the things I've got against, 'gun games'. These games teach bad gun handling habits; and it just ain't real world training!)

As for hanging: tac lights, lasers, bells, whistles, knives, or whatever else on a Glock's accessory rail: Me, personally? I've got no good use for any of that crap. My pistol is my pistol; my light is my light; and, unless I'm training, I don't need no stink 'in laser - either.

Last edited by Pistolero; 10-31-2010 at 04:30 PM.
 
Old 11-01-2010, 09:13 AM   #35
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Siefried put 1/2 million full charge lrn reloads thru 2 1911's in 5 years. He'd replace the barrel every 50,000 rds, have any other needed smithing done. claimed both guns were still original slides and frames afterward, still quite good performance, too. .45 ball duplication loads are a LOT harder on a gun than 9mm ball.
 
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