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Old 10-02-2004, 08:00 PM   #1
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S&W Mk-22 hush puppy

does anyone know anything about the Smith & Wesson Mark-22 'Hush Puppy,' used by the U.S. SEALS. Anything would be good. Seems to be nothing on the net.
 
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Old 10-02-2004, 08:16 PM   #2
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Egads thats a good question.

I've seen them before, not on the net, but don't have any tech data on them at all.
 
Old 10-02-2004, 09:46 PM   #3
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I found it in "Small Arms of the World", 1977 edition. Unfortunately the file is too big to upload, pm me.
 
Old 10-03-2004, 07:29 AM   #4
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YEAH, it's bulky enough to render the gun something that you have to haul around in a gymbag, and it's made of some sort plastic, in order to keep the can's wt down enough to let the gun cycle normally with the can mounted. It was, and perhaps still is, done because they can't figure out how to make an effective 9mm can weigh only 4 ozs, like I did.
 
Old 10-03-2004, 05:12 PM   #5
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http://st2.wz.cz/historie/guns/mk22.jpg

per one link, it was issued in 1968 -"The Mark 22 was derived from the semiautomatic 9mm Model 39 Smith&Wesson pistol with a longer barrel to fit a muffler." Another said the pistol could be fired and the slide could be locked open to ensure the quietest operation.

cheers
 
Old 10-03-2004, 05:39 PM   #6
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u mean locked SHUT. :-) This gun was intended as an assasination device, a sentry removal weapon, not against dogs. Dogs MOVE, and a subsonic 9mm better BRAIN the dog, or he's going to make a LOT of noise before he dies, which obviates any possible advantage of having used a silencer. So a suppressed 22 auto rifle would be FAR more to the point, if guard dogs were REALLY the intended target.
 
Old 10-04-2004, 04:13 AM   #7
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Wasn't there also a High Standard variant?
SatCong
 
Old 10-04-2004, 04:59 AM   #8
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SatCong, the suppressed High Standard was developed during WW2 although it was used in Korea and Vietnam.

RIKA
 
Old 10-04-2004, 05:10 AM   #9
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A lot of Ruger MkII's are in use now.

Both the US and Israel will nowadays often carry a scoped Ruger 10/22 carbine with a silencer slung with their gear for such work. It doesn't weigh much, is harder hitting and way more accurate. It can also be deployed pretty quickly. This was a tactic the Israelis led the way in.

 
Old 10-04-2004, 08:50 AM   #10
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nice, great pic

how is the 10/22 harder hitting? don't both use the same ammo? if it's supersonic, why not just use .223?
 
Old 10-04-2004, 08:54 AM   #11
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I think he means it's harder hitting than a .22 pistol.

I notice that they keep their fighting rifle as a fighting rifle and don't cripple it with a .22 unit.

what an amazing concept....

 
Old 10-04-2004, 08:59 AM   #12
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If the bullets exit both barrels in subsonic range (ideally), the FPEs are the same though, right?

Agree it would be better to have separate, dedicated rifles, but I think what Andy constantly refers to is being out in the field, keeping gear to a minimum. I also have to agree from a financial standpoint, although that is one cool looking rifle.

cheers
 
Old 10-04-2004, 09:22 AM   #13
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it22 rifle (or .22 unit in AR( is a bit harder hitting, perhaps, anyway, with subsonic .22 ammo, than is a .22 pistol, and certainly far easier to precisely hit with than is any pistol, especially if the rifle is scoped. Not everyone has an AR, or is willing to buy one, or especially not, pay $700 for a 223 can, plus a $200 transfer tax. It's a LOT harder to make a servicable 223 can than it is to do the same for a .22 rifle (even if you DO have to internally thread a counterbored hole in the muzzle of the .22 rifle. Not every military wants to spend enough to give every guy on the border such a canned AR, even. :-)
 
Old 10-04-2004, 09:24 AM   #14
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Depends upon what .22 ammo is available to you. the subsonic stuff may or may not be 200 or so fps faster in a rifle barrel than a pistol barrel, depending mostly upon the length of the pistol barrel. A 3" barrel and a 7" barrel can be 150 fps apart in what they deliver, for instance.
 
Old 10-04-2004, 09:25 AM   #15
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unless it's shtf, it's feasible for a group of guys to have several different "specialized" longarms. Military and cops dont have to pay the $200 tax, of course, and it's pretty simple to make a very servicable 22 can, in a few hours, if you have a torch or Tig welder, and a lathe.
 
Old 10-04-2004, 10:04 AM   #16
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Accuracy, rifle will be easier to aim although not inherently more accurate (if vibration applies here, which it might not). Never argued about rifle vs. pistol platforms, but since were talking about it, one is fine for the grunts to carry in the streets but folks like the Mossad must be more discreet.

Harder hitting. I still don't get the mechanism, unless we're talking about the increase in speed, which would be bad if going into supersonic... i.e. if the bullet exits the pistol at just subsonic or is held to that speed, you're as good as gold. If you go supersonic in rifle, might as well just go .223. Sonic boom is sonic boom, right? I can see if it's financial, but doesn't Israel get their M4s basically free from US? They should have enough money to get their guys optimal gear, if anyone, heck they DO have money and they are in the middle of hell.

my understanding is that the rifle pictured is used for crowd control... shoot the protesters in the leg to get them down. Doubt it would be used for discreet sniping, I'd want a little more than that as militants can have access to armor, etc. Am interested, however.

cheers
 
Old 10-04-2004, 10:25 AM   #17
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I heard that they started out shooting them in the lung, but too many died, so they changed POA. :-) Well, bud, it's a question of pistol barrel length and speed of the ammo, as I said. Supposedly, the 60 gr Aquila subsonic is 950 fps in a rifle barrel, which is piss poor. Should be 1050 fps, but there you go.

No, sonic crack is not exactly the same with 223 as with hi-v .22lr. The 223 can "crack" several times as it passes a row of telephone poles, for instance. It has a somewhat high pitch, or so it always seemed to me, and a bit more volume. That stands to reason, being a longer bullet at 2-3x the speed, it displaces quite a bit more air.
 
Old 10-04-2004, 10:27 AM   #18
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again, they probably aint got the ability to make 223 cans, but have the ability to make 22 cans. Put a .22lr can on the AR, and firing a 223 rd thru it might get a bit exciting, depending upon the degree of alignment, size of the hole in the baffles, and the type of baffle material and front end cap makeup.
 
Old 10-04-2004, 11:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
again, they probably aint got the ability to make 223 cans, but have the ability to make 22 cans. Put a .22lr can on the AR, and firing a 223 rd thru it might get a bit exciting, depending upon the degree of alignment, size of the hole in the baffles, and the type of baffle material and front end cap makeup.
You are trying to claim they cannot afford to buy or manufacture cans for thier .223s? Israel. Umm, I don't think you really beleive that for a second, do you?


You don't think they can manufacture precision equipment?

Okey dokey.

 
Old 10-04-2004, 02:28 PM   #20
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If they can build a Merkava main battle tank, they can build a 'can'.

The Israelis use a 1:9 twist barrel on their 10/22's with 60gr Aguila SSS ammo.

The majority of combat nowadays in Israel is urban. They'll use head shots with the 10/22 to kill, but if they just want to incapacitate, like they want to take him alive, one of their favorite methods is to put a 60gr .22LR round into the male gonads. Hear tell it takes the fight right out of them.
 
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